MSU swimmers receive burns from chemicals found in pools
Some swimmers on the MSU swimming and diving team who received skin burns and body hair loss from chemicals in the IM Sports-West pool said their coach intimidated them into swimming in unsafe conditions.
Multiple swimmers who reported for a Dec. 28 men’s and women’s swimming and diving training camp left the pool with redness and irritation on their skin, but said they were asked to report to the pool for training the next day.
“I don’t want to miss a day of training, but at the same time, I didn’t want to get in the pool,” said Erinn Wertz, a sophomore on the swim team. “It felt like I was being forced, I guess.”
Wertz said after the second day, the dry skin symptoms she experienced worsened.
“I had a dry throat, I didn’t have hair on my arms anymore, our eyebrows turned really blonde,” she said. “And I still had really dry skin that (made it) about unbearable to sleep.”
Wertz and other swimmers complained about the pool conditions after both practices, but the coaches asked them to report back the following day, she said.
“They kept saying they understood, they knew what was going on, but they didn’t really know what was going on in the pool,” she said.
MSU swimming head coach Matt Gianiodis said safety is always a concern. The chemical levels in the pool were the result of maintenance and construction to the pool earlier in the month, he said. The coaching staff was never told it wasn’t OK to swim, he added.
“From one day to the next, at least atmospherically, it got better, so we just assumed the water was better,” Gianiodis said. “Once we found out about (the unsafe levels), we got them out.”
Some members of the team didn’t show up to the third practice because of the pool’s condition, Wertz said, although she attended because she didn’t want to lose a day of training.
“It made me feel like I couldn’t put forth my best effort in the pool because I kept thinking about what it felt like to be in there,” she said.
After speaking with the maintenance staff and the Physical Plant, Gianiodis said the pool was shut down. The teams moved practice to Jenison Field House and IM Sports-Circle.
Senior swimming captain Matt McNichols said the coaching staff didn’t make swimmers return to the pool after learning about its condition.
“If they knew the chemical level was what it was, we wouldn’t have been here from day one,” McNichols said.
The conditions were bad but were more uncomfortable than dangerous, junior captain Marlys Fuqua said.
“It’s not like skin was falling off or anything,” she said. “It was a nice burn, but it wasn’t anything that needed an emergency trip.”
MSU Athletics Director Mark Hollis said he’s aware of the situation and no swimmers went to trainers for medical assistance.
Gianiodis said the team usually travels outside of East Lansing for training camp when the pool undergoes maintenance.
The team has gone to Florida, the Bahamas and California in past years.
“When you stay over break, it’s difficult, especially with facilities,” he said.
“Put it this way: We’ll never stay in East Lansing again.”
Published on Monday, January 7, 2008
Comments
Private
01/08/08 @ 10:47am
FIRE Gianiodis!
He, along with the rest of the staff, are really mistreating the swimmers week in and week out. Making them go in to the pool the second day after the swimmers told him they were burned? RIDICULOUS. Hollis, please get this asshole off our campus now.
PRIVATE
01/08/08 @ 12:29pm
The comment that Matt Gianidis made was “ I don’t give a F… if your skin is falling off or not.Get in the F’ing pool and swim.” Let’s don’t sugar coat the truth.That is how the coaching staff operates. An atmosphere of intimidation and unfairness. Just see what happens to Erin. You go girl!!
private
01/08/08 @ 12:44pm
Where did the divers train? Oh, yea, U of M was gracious enough to let us use their pool. Thanks coach Best! He got us out of the pool when our skin started to burn!!
Private
01/08/08 @ 12:48pm
We need to do whatever it takes to get this asshole out of here. He claims to have safety as his number 1 concern…BULLSHIT!! These aren’t little kids complaining about having to do work…these are young adults telling him that there is obviously something wrong with the pool…since he has no intention of listening and having these athletes best interest at heart we need to find someone that will. His language towards the athletes is disrespectful on a daily basis so I can only imagine what he will say to Erinn. Way to stick up for yourself girl…its about time someone did.
Private
01/08/08 @ 1:19pm
It sounds like this situation could have been prevented, however, the pool facilities at Michigan State University may need a tune-up before we go calling for Coach Gianiodis’ head. Why is it unknown by the coaching staff and the maintenance staff that the pool is unsafe? Why does a Big Ten school like Michigan State have facilities at a lower caliber than local high schools? I think Mr. Hollis has some bigger fish to fry than firing a coach. Fix maintenance management and facilities…Why be Michigan’s SECOND University?
Private
01/08/08 @ 2:03pm
I feel sorry for the swim team It is hard to believe a head coach would not have taken matters into his own hands and tested the pool everyday before letting his swimmers get in. Obviously the diving coach believed his atlethes and went elsewhere. I can only imagine how this is being talked about around the swim community. MSU should be represented by the best and I don’t think this coach is doing that by his comments.
private
01/08/08 @ 2:15pm
The team has been the bottom of the big 10…how long? it aint the pool! and it aint the swimmers
Jim Wertz
01/08/08 @ 2:54pm
This “reporter” really distorted his conversation with Erinn. In fact, he took “portions” of her comments and strung them together to form his “quotes”. She called me right after this “reporter” called her and was upset becuase he kept trying to put words in her mouth. Erinn tried to correct him, but he went on to his next question. I had her writing down verbatim her recollection of the phone interview immediately after becuase I fear that this type of bullshit would happen. I am furious and have contacted our attorney. This reporter should be fired immediately and the mother of the swimmer who called the paper should have her daughter transfer if she is so angry. Team incidents should stay within the team.
Catherine Biasello
01/08/08 @ 3:01pm
Concerned MSU Alum
01/08/08 @ 3:18pm
Hmm…Big Ten school with unsafe levels of chemicals, burning the athletes?! Not sure who Jim Wertz is, but as an alum of MSU, I think this is pretty newsworthy and serious. Saying ahtletes should transfer to a different school or that team incidents should “stay within the team” — sounds like blaming the victims and wanting to cover up instead of face up to what appears to be a pretty mishap. I’ll be sending this article to other alums…and perhaps contacting the AD for a better understanding.
private
01/08/08 @ 3:28pm
Was the pool only open to athletes?? Thank god they closed it, because heaven help us if a pregnant women, or an elderly person were to use it. So keep a lid on it Do they give lessons to kids? What was in the pool…there must be a chemical log.
MSU Community Member
01/08/08 @ 3:33pm
Mr. Wertz (father of the daughter quoted in the article), thank you for your comment. You are correct about how news is printed. As a neighbor of coach Gianiodis and hearing first hand of this incident, my question is why in the world the Head coach of a Big Ten team would not be notified that there is work/maintenance going on in their facilities. The question should be ask, who dropped the ball or takes possession of the maintenance of the pool. I am sure that Coach Gianiodis would not have put his student athletes in danger if the conditions were known. The issue should not be about the coach trying to conduct practice, but why are there not procedures in place, communications and signs to notify of the danger. The pool is also used by faculty, other students and the general public. Hollis should not be asking for Coach Gianiodis’ head, but asking why they were not informed of the maintenance taking place. As to the earlier comment about the how the coaching staff operates, hang around some of the other practices on campus.
Concerned MSU Alum
01/08/08 @ 3:46pm
Seems to me that if the athletes were complaning several days and nobody checked the pool, then coaches should be held responsible for that? I would think these athletes parents would agree?? Just seems VERY shoddy for a Big 10 school – it’s embarrasing.
Concern MSU Alum
01/08/08 @ 4:14pm
I am just stunned that anyone would let the coaches off the hook. I applaud Erinn for talking with a reporter and sorry that her words may have been taken out of context. But there is more than one person on this team and it is obvious other swimmers were affected. No one should be intimidated into not voicing their opinion or concern. And because the MSU swimmers did voice their concern to the Coach why did he not check it out on his own? Why didn’t he test the water? Why didn’t he make a few calls? Why didn’t he take matters into his hands right away? Where is the leadership? Does he really think his swimmers aren’t there to swim and get their training in? Why would swimmers of a Big 10 school even think about trying to get out of practice? He needs to take responsibility as any coach should. As a parent of a young swimmer this is not an environment/team I would want her to be a part of…I am embarrassed as well.
Jim Wertz
01/08/08 @ 4:34pm
Maybe taken out of context? Puhleeze. I sure hope that MSU Journalism isn’t taught this way and this is what it takes to become a reporter.
The ONLY heads that should roll is the IDIOTS in building services dept. who incorrectly applied the pool chemicals and didn’t call the coaches to warn them and the reporter who took a lot of liberty with the truth to create a controversial story with my duaghter unfortunately quoted by this jackass.
Below is a copy of the email she sent to the editors of this fine rag:
Dear Editor,
My name is Erinn Wertz and I am on the varsity swim team for MSU. Today in the State News an article was printed about our training trip over the break. I am very upset with the article and the “quotes” I received.
Mike Blasky picked and choose what he believed would make the best story, when really there was nothing to begin with. He heard about rumors from an angry mother of a swimmer on the team, he had no true facts to start with.
He twisted his questions around to make the story what he wanted. I never once said I was forced or intimidated by my coaches. In fact, I said the coaches gave us a chance to leave but I choose to stay because I never want to miss a day of training. I also said the coaches were calling everyday to find out if it was safe for us to swim and were given the okay, then when finally he got a hold of someone from the physical plant he found the chemical levels to be a little high and then we decided to move to other pools to continue our training. No one knew what was going on with the pool, but they were trying to find out as much as they could. The coaches were doing everything they could to find out what was wrong and make the conditions better for us. The conditions we experienced over break are nothing new to any swimmer.
The article Mike Blasky wrote does not tell the whole story and I am demanding a reprint tomorrow. I know for a fact he talked to our captains and they would be the best sources of information about the article. My father has contacted my family lawyer.
Erinn Wertz
Frank
01/08/08 @ 5:14pm
The swim coaches are not the smartest people. They are mean people. Only a jerk would stop practice when swimmers are complaining about the chemicals burning their skin and tell them to stop F..ing complaining. Coach G had a temper tantrum one time and used the f word 17 times in two minutes. I feel bad for Erin. I bet she is getting the brunt of this. She probably will get cut by them next year because she stood out negitively. For sure I bet Biasello will because thats the way these coaches are. The coach “Manny” has actually physically abused swimmers in the past! This would be a really good thing for the Newspaper to look into and do a really good article about these coaches and their tyranny. Hitler would be a better coach than them!
Frank
01/08/08 @ 5:19pm
I have been in pools before that had huge amounts of chlorine and with that huge amount in the pool, so much of it turns into gas in the air. If you have ever been into IM West you would know their is no air flow and this gas would just sit there. The coaches can’t smell this gas! It was like World War 1. Chlorine gas clouds and having to work out in this, breath it in! Why this is just so negitive. I bet the swimmers will have lung damage in the future. I think a lawsuit is in order or the coaches should resign before being released.
TTM
01/08/08 @ 5:57pm
Is this coach for real? If your swimmers are going home with bleached eye brows, hairless arms, and skin burns, it should be the coach’s damn responsibility to find out what is hurting his team. That’s absolutely crazy for the swimmers to swim in such conditions!! The chemicals were so unsafe, who knows what effects the swimmers will have! Lets just hope that down the road, these kids don’t all get sick because a coach was too goddamn lazy to find out what was wrong with the pool. Shame on you.
Private
01/08/08 @ 6:09pm
As a high school all american and all state swimmer I had considered swimming in college and looked at MSU. But after this…“incident”.. other programs seem better for me.
Private
01/08/08 @ 6:11pm
G might not be doing his job entirely, and may swear a bit too much, but there is a coach who treats the swimmers terribly and shows them absolutely no respect; Manabu Nagouchi. He is someone who should have more attention on him then G. Manny is a cold, heartless person and every person affiliated with the Michigan State University swim team is aware of this. I have never heard of the physical abuse, but have heard about his verbal abuse from many people. He destroys young adults minds and has brought swimmers’ confidences to an all time low. There is a fine line between tough and crazy, and he has completely crossed it. Over the years, many swimmers have seen psychologists because of the emotional damage he has caused them. This year seems to be particularly worse with swimmers needing to see one. G deep down is a good person and truely cares about his swimmers, he just made a bad decision because he was not given enough information from the physical plants. If there is one person who needs to go, it should be Manny. Manny most likely led the “intimidation” to swim in the high levels of chlorine. If G surrounded himself with a more supportive coaching staff, the program I believe, will be more successful. People are too intimidated by Manny to say anything to him about his behavior, and even at times it seems as if the other coaches are afraid to say something to him. He needs to take his anger elsewhere and stop negatively affecting these young people.
private
01/08/08 @ 6:15pm
What more has to happen until the coaches get fired?? And how exactly is a chemical burn a “nice burn”?
Timbers
01/08/08 @ 6:30pm
That’s because it looks like a smiley face
private
01/08/08 @ 6:32pm
These swimmers are in this water for more that 2 hours. Day two was too much….they should have used a different pool. Mr. Wertz…only Erinn and the reporter really know what was said in their conversation. I feel for your daughter to be in the middle of this. If the converstion was mis-represented she should get at the least an apology. I as a reader of the State News and Alum would expect that but there were other swimmers involved. A burn is a burn. Hair falling out, rashes…it’s all too much. Would it be acceptable for a football player to have frostbite from playing in the cold or a baseball player practicing in a thunderstorm? No. Maintenance and the coaches should share the responsibility. It’s all too sad this happened at all to all the parties.
mandy
01/08/08 @ 7:11pm
In my opinion, it is extremely inappropriate to be including personal comments about other issues concerning the team. Issues that have nothing to do with the matter at hand including coaches personalities, alleged abuse, and your personal coaching preference. This issue of too much chemical in the pool should have been dealt with by the team in the beginning and should have never been brought to the attention of the public, unless the public was directly affected mainly in regards to safety.
PRIVATE
01/08/08 @ 7:15pm
Erinn.. why are you retracting your previous statements about the pool ? Is it because you are afraid of the repercussions from the coaching staff ? If you did not want to be misinterpreted then you shouldn’t have said anything at all. However, the statements WERE said and instead of putting the blame on others you should take personal responsibility for them.
Anonymous
01/08/08 @ 7:25pm
This doesnt suprise me at all. I’ve seen the man throw Gatorade coolers over and throw temper tantrums at kids over minor incidents.
He likes to coach through intimidation, all the while swearing like a sailor. Looking back its kind of comical how much of a joke the man is. Just sad he has a job coaching at a big ten school.
Also, anyone familiar with the situation wouldn’t find it too suprising who the two swimmers quoted defending the coaches are.
Look at the talent on MSU’s swim team. Its one thing for a few people to underperform, but this entire program has underperformed as long as hes been coach.
private
01/08/08 @ 7:26pm
It is sad. Considering there were other pools they could have gone to. If the chemicals in the water were strong enough to cause bleaching and totally burning off all body hair then the coach should have been able to make the decision that it was unsafe without waiting 3 days to varify it with anyone. Anyone who has been around pools that much just knows when there is a problem. Yes there was intimidation involved for the swimmers to get in the pool dispite their complaints. How would he like it if someone dipped his kids in chlorine.
private
01/08/08 @ 7:42pm
My friends on the team said somehting about antifreeze getting mixed into the pool. what did get into the water?
Private
01/08/08 @ 7:50pm
As a former MSU swimmer, I’ve had first-hand experience with Coach Glonodis’ obvious Napoleon complex. He draws satisfaction not from achieving victories in the pool, but from using his authority to abuse his team. This is reflected in his laughable performance in the Big Ten (despite decently talented teams), and in the situation uncovered by the State News. I wish I could say the inconsiderate, power-crazed behavior described above was a rarity, or an honest mistake. Sadly, during my time on his team I experienced it on a daily basis, and eventually it drove me to end my 10 year swimming career.Why our tuition dollars continue to pay this man’s salary baffles me.
Anonymous
01/08/08 @ 7:51pm
To get a burn from the pool it most probably was too much chlorine. I swam for most of my life, but luckily the worst chlorine related thing i got was some itchy skin.
private
01/08/08 @ 8:11pm
This is really blown out of proportion. There are certain people who are on a tirade against the MSU Swimming coaching staff. There is nothing wrong with how the situation was handled by the coaching staff, just by the parents of swimmers. It is absurd for this situation to be at the point that it is. There are rumors abound but no real information.
It’s sad that if your kid isn’t swimming fast at MSU that, as a parent, you blame the coaching staff. Give me a break, your kids aren’t perfect.
So maybe you parents will get your wish, maybe the coaching staff will be let go. Maybe your kids will have fun being babied through life. Sometimes you have to deal with stuff, get over it. Nobody’s life was endangered. This is just a petty scapegoat in a larger crusade for overly concerned and misinformed parents to nix the MSU Swimming coaching staff.
If you are a parent who disagrees with me, please don’t go to anymore meets, team functions, or especially Big 10’s.
private
01/08/08 @ 8:40pm
Since when did the chlorine leaving your face looking like it had been placed on a burner become a “nice burn” ? That’s a clever one.. As far as I am concerned it is not healthy and I do not applaud you for sucking up to the coaches.
IM MAD CAUSE I SUCK AT SWIMMING
01/08/08 @ 9:01pm
UR all bad at swimming
Private
01/08/08 @ 9:30pm
My concern is, after listening to my swimmer complain about the burn, lack of arm hair and eyebrows, skin coming off on the inside of her mouth, what is happening the the rest of her? That stuff is absorbed into the skin, and “other places”....will my daughter be all right?
private
01/08/08 @ 10:13pm
That’s my concern. My swimmer had gastro-intestinal problems along with burns, and hair loss. As one person stated above, this pool isn’t exclusive to the swim team! These young adults have been challenged not to speak up….this has been a good source to unleash some tension. By the way, my son is on the team and he would be very upset if he knew I was sharing my concerns.
private
01/08/08 @ 10:55pm
Marlys…oh Mandy..about your previous statement, the pool isn’t just used by the “swim team”......so it becomes an issue that needs the attention of the public. Stop being so selfish and brainwashed.
private
01/08/08 @ 11:56pm
Most of the people posting comments on this article have either a kid or a loved one in the program. We hear the stories from what goes on. Even though the coaches threaten to not tell the public… we know what is going on. Forget about the results… the coaching staff’s integrity needs examined. G’s only? no… everyone including that prick called “Manny”
Hopefully this opens some eyes.
Liznatch
01/09/08 @ 12:29am
this is an article reguarding the chemical levels in the pool, and it’s not supposed to be bashing the coaching staff. if there’s an issue with coaching, it should be addressed after the season is done. therefore, by making this a public issue not only affects training, team morale and team attitude, it puts the future of MSU swimming at risk. how difficult is it going to be to recruit with this hanging over our heads? this is a program that needs improvement, definitely. but how are we gonna achieve that if there are people trying to bring the program down?
as a current swim coach i have absolutely no idea how to check the chlorine levels – it’s a maintenence issue. the chlorine levels were an error by the pool maintenence people, and nobody was seriously hurt. itchy skin? grow up. last time i checked, this was a team of college athletes, and they should take some responsibility for themselves, and not simply allow their parents to do it for them. and although G may be intense, i seriously doubt that he would put his athletes in danger. and where in this article was there one word about Manny? No where. it’s inappropriate and completely out of line to bring up his coaching abilities (or lack thereof) in a forum that’s supposed to relate to the article written by the state news.
McNichols is right – there is no way the coaches would have allowed the athletes to swim, knowing the chlorine levels in the pool. after they saw that the swimmers were affected, they moved the training to MSUs other facilities. that’s taking responsibility for the safety of their athletes.
whether these coaches are good at what they do is not the issue at hand. if G’s job is up in question because of a chemical imbalance that was not even his fault, that’s ridiculous. itchy skin is not cause to find a new coaching staff. to the athletes upset by this – focus your attention on your swimming, and not getting your coach fired.
Alumni
01/09/08 @ 12:32am
It is the responsibility of the coaching staff to guarantee the safety of the athletes everyday. Why did the coach not perform a simple water (chlorine) test that every lifeguard working at any pool performs several times a day as a part of their job, why did the coaching staff not have the equipment to test the water? That is the main point here lack of the coaching staff to protect their athletes and take 30 seconds to perform a simple test.
Also have to point out that we are not talking about people that are casual pool users these are people that are at the pool up to 20 hours a week (per NCAA rules) they live in that pool and when they know something is wrong there probably is. Again a simple test that a 2 year old could have performed should be normal practice at any pool and logged at least 3 times a day.
I think the coaches need to take responsibility for the issue along with the athletic department and facilities and policies put into place to prevent future issues. If this would have been during the semester all the people that use the pool would have been effected the number of people would be more then a swim team.
Also as a former collegiate athlete the usage of negative coaching practices is a violation of both NCAA rules and Big Ten rules and disciplinary action should be reviewed.
Think someone should file complaint with the NCAA Office. No athlete should be subjected to mistreatment verbally or physically. Student athletes are not there for the coach to berate at their will. This reflects badly on MSU at all levels and destroys the student athlete experience.
I would also recommend that swimmers that where involved in this incident seek medical advise outside of the medical staff at MSU and get full documentation. Also would like to point out that athlete on scholarship can seek medical waiver … (physical/mental) maybe something to look into have to look at the NCAA rulebook.
But definitely one of the athletes or parents should call the NCAA/Big Ten office and file a complaint concerning the treatment of the athletes.
What is the point of all the sportsmanship commercials they play during football games if the coaches treat the athletes like S**t.
Call the NCAA ... I might just call them tomorrow myself.
Treatment of the athletes as posted should never be tolerated; the coach is in a position of authority and any negative practice in not both inappropriate but is verbal abuse (just like in the work place boss/coach == employee/student.
This is a very dark day for MSU athletic but also MSU as a community…
swimparent
01/09/08 @ 9:05am
I’m a swimmers parent as I know many of the other comments posted here come from.
My kid is adamant to keep ours mouths shut. If you rock the boat it’s not long before you get feed to the sharks around here so one is forced to only respond anonymously. Constructive criticism is not one of Gianiodis’s strong suits. I’m fine to stay silent when all that’s at stake is losing a meet but when it comes to the health and safety of my child – sorry G the gloves come off.
As a parent it’s difficult to really know what’s going on. The team truly does have a mandate of silence. I know from inside information that the chemical levels were very high and it may have been more than just chlorine. I was also told the swimmers were told NOT to seek medical care. Since we’ve had no communication from either G or any swim staff, all anyone has to evaluate is rumor and bits and pieces.
Yes I hold the coaching staff responsible. When the chemical level is 10 times the norm you should be knowledgeable to enough to know something is wrong and not continue. The attitude of I didn’t get a call from maintenance so it must be OK is not acceptable.
I take particular exception to the comments from private at 8:11 last night. You say “rumors abound but no real information” whose fault is that? Sounds like it’s time for G to man up and communicate with the parents. If your kid swims in a pool with chemicals strong enough to burn off their hair I think an email to parents is due.
You say to not blame the coaching staff because my kid doesn’t swim fast enough? Hmm… look at the high school times from all the swimmers and compare to their college times. Most are doing good to stay the same. The common denominator is coaching not over protective parents.
Last, don’t go to meets or team functions because I’m not loyal enough?!? Sorry bud, I’ll be there – for my child and all the other swimmers who love the sport and are doing their best to struggle through a difficult situation.
Parent of a past MSU swimmer
01/09/08 @ 10:07am
I BLAME THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY
Your comments about the couching staff being disfunctional and agorgant are spot on. Coach (and I use the term very loosly) has a long documented history of being a jerk, and it should be no surprise to anyone that he is now being called out because of it. He feels he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants because he has the backing of the athletic department.
His bad behavior has been documented in many letters and emails over the years to the former AD (Ron Mason) the current AD, and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY, all who are to blame because they made the decision when told of the coaching staff’s mistreatment of it’s swimmers to LOOK THE OTHER WAY. All because the “Coach” (and I quote Ron Mason) “is fiscally responsible” (i.e. EXTREMELY CHEAP)
So because he runs the team on a shoe string budget, and does not spend money on the swimmers (even for normal expenses like meals on the way home from swim meets 8 hours away in order to punish them for performing badly) he is able to keep his job.
I ask you is this any way to judge a coaches ability? No wonder they are the bottom dwellers in the Big Ten.
If this were a money sport we would ALL be calling for the coaches head. This tragety is a result of years of neglect by the the altetic department to do anything about this guy, condoning his bad behavaior, and mistreatment of the swimmers.
It is directly a result of the cheap coach not wanting to spend money on the kids (and thus keep his job). When normally they would be in Florida training, G kept the swimmers on campus while they were performaing maintaince on the pool. What did we expect to happen?
We have gotten rid of Mason, now it is time to clean house and get rid of the whole swim team coaching staff as this should be the last straw.
SEND THE MESSAGE, ONCE AND FOR ALL AND GET RID OF THIS JERK!!
private
01/09/08 @ 11:45am
Thank you to “Alumni”. These coaches have threatened MANY swimmers just this year to take away their scholarships. And let me tell you it wasn’t for violation of ANY NCAA rules. The parents have relentlessly gone to the AD (Mason,Langland) for the mistreatment of their kids….nothing happens. The mental abuse is unforgiving. Please help us and follow through with contacting the NCAA. Many of us will ban together and do the same.
Private
01/09/08 @ 12:13pm
For those interesed, the head of the NCAA’s email address (Myles Brand) is mbrand@ncaa.org
MOM
01/09/08 @ 12:22pm
Parents misinformed? I never received an email from the coaching staff to inform me about the situation. It isn’t in G’s blog either.
Isn’t that something that would have at least coushioned this big fat mess. BIG TEN DREAMS! BIG TEN NIGHTMARE!!!!
Concerned MSU Alum
01/09/08 @ 1:49pm
I contacted Dr. Brand at NCAA and his office got back to me almost immediately. While the executive office of NCAA is not authorized to address this issue, they did forward the matter to their health and safety office (David Klossner at dklossner@ncaa.org). They also suggested contacting President Anna Lou K. Simon and the Secretary of the Board of Trustees at Michigan State for further investigation.
Link to Board of Trustees: http://trustees.msu.edu/contact.php
Email for Dr. Simon: presmail@msu.edu
For the record, I am not a swim team member, nor am I a parent of a swim team member(after reading all of the comments, it seems there are a lot on this board — and a lot of bad blood, which I can certainly understand).
I am simply an outraged alumni who thinks the university ought to look into this matter.
current student
01/09/08 @ 1:59pm
The coaches rule with an iron fist. Why last year their was a movement for the coaches to be fired for outrages and ncaa violations with training and the coaches responded by cutting one of the swimmers who’s paretns met with the A.D. This swimmer wasn’t cut for performance, or grades, or even violationg team rules. Just out of spite. G is a small little man who can not seem to keep his mouth shut or out of trouble. This will be his last year just because this guy can not stay out of trouble. Just more icying on the cake. Even Milloy should go. She has been seen several times drinking with swimmers on the team, even attending a after Big Tens swim meet drinking with underage swimmers. If the paper did some investigation they would uncover alot of dark secrets about this programs coaches. All have secrets and these could all come out with the proper investigation. DO IT for the GOOD of THE TEAM and MSU. Go Green.
Fletch
01/09/08 @ 2:17pm
Tanner and I like to skinny dip.
Blog Hater
01/09/08 @ 2:21pm
Typical respone in our society today. Is everyone so frustrated with their lives that they need to jump up on the soap box everytime something happens of such little consequence. These are obviously the opinions of people who have little or no understanding of how the Athletic Department or the University System work. The problem with blogging is that there is not a minimum IQ requirement. It’s human error, do you really think that the coaching staff would have forced them into the pool when there are 3 more on campus. As I finish my first and last blog I actually feel myself getting dumber. Get a life.
private
01/09/08 @ 2:32pm
Correction – this isn’t a blog, it’s a bulletin board. I think you mean to say “there is no minimum IQ requirement for participating on a ‘bulletin board’” (thank you for so aptly demonstrating your point)...
Blog: a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer
Bulletin Board: a public electronic forum that allows users to post or read messages or to post or download files and that is accessed by computer over a network (as the Internet)
Bulletin Board Hater
01/09/08 @ 2:56pm
I guess College is the new High School as they say. I would have been mortified if my parents did my bidding when I was a student athlete. Are these adults or kids? Are we going to hold their hands until they turn what, 30?
Super Bad
01/09/08 @ 3:11pm
I’ve been paying $150.00 for waxing and bleaching, let me in that pool. Holla!
private
01/09/08 @ 4:25pm
The interviewee’s father says “I am furious and have contacted our attorney.” About what? Is he going to seek money from the University? What are the damages? Maybe the building services dept employees who he has now publically branded as “IDIOTS” should go out and get a lawyer too, after being defamed. And the reporter who he has publically branded as a “jackass”. Meanwhile, Errin demands a “reprint” and again states that the family lawyer has been contacted. At least there will be a happy lawyer surfacing out of this.
Current Male Swimmer
01/09/08 @ 5:38pm
You all need to get a life or at least get your facts in order. I am currently a member of the MEN’s swim team at MSU, and the conditions are not that bad, in fact there not bad at all. I happen to love the coaching staff and strongly trust there decision making process. They gave us daily updates on how the pool was, and every day we were told they were given the “OK”. We were also never forced into the pool; we were never threatened with any punishments or negative ramifications if we didn’t swim. We are all college students I think if any of us really feared getting in the pool then we would have spoken up. Which brings me to my last point; when you go off to college it becomes time to fight your own battles, what are all you “concerned” parents doing on here when you child is at least 18, and if your child felt so abused then why aren’t they on here defending themselves.
Male swimmer
Bleed Green
Captain Planet
01/09/08 @ 5:43pm
Captain Planet says stop polluting and STFU!
The power is yours.
former MSU swimmer
01/09/08 @ 5:47pm
The first thing I can say is that “you get what you pay for”. Swim coaches do not make much money at MSU. What really great coach would come here? The facility is the worst in the Big 10, the pay stinks, and they have fewer scholarships then any Big 10 team (at least this used to be the case). This has been happening since Jennifer Parks and Richard Fetter were the coaches. Secondly, any swim coach should be able to check for chlorine levels in the pool. There is a simple, quick kit that anyone can use. This includes you, Liznatch. Thirdly, I know it has been along time since I swam at MSU, but I don’t believe berating and swearing at the swimmers makes them perform better. Maybe this works in football and hockey, but women swimmers don’t work that way!
I hope the team problems get resolved quickly. I still wear my Michigan State swimming shirts with pride! Good Luck!!
Concerned Parent
01/09/08 @ 7:30pm
With all of these negative comments flying back and forth and several issues being confused, one important thing has been forgotten. Mistakes happen, even serious ones such as this, and none of this was done intentionally to harm the athletes. Talk of getting rid of the entire coaching staff has made me realize that the diving coach, Eric Best, has not been mentioned except to say that he took his divers out of the pool to train elsewhere. Eric is a great coach who consistently produces high level divers that are not at “the bottom of the Big 10.” As a diving parent who has the utmost respect for this coach who treats his athletes with courtesy, respect and the dignity they earn each and every day, I would hate to see him dragged down with the rest of the MSU coaching staff.
anon
01/09/08 @ 8:05pm
this stuff is pretty easy to say anonymously isn’t it? grow up.
concerned
01/09/08 @ 8:14pm
You are right in one respect, the Diving coach should not be included
in this mess.As far as a mistake was made-this was no mistake.The smell in the pool area was strong enough to alert the coaching staff that there was a problem. Coach Best listened to his divers complaints. Again the swimmers had the wrath of an immature, its my way or here are your walking papers, adolescent, for the lack of a better word, coach, upon them.Courtesy, respect, and dignity do not fit into the swim coaches vocabulary.
Alumni Former Athlete
01/09/08 @ 8:27pm
As a former athlete at MSU up to 2001 MSU has only three grounds for the discontinuation of scholarships, 1) you become academically ineligible 2) Convicted of a Felony 3) gross insubordination (this one may have been removed.
I also believe it is also a violation of NCAA rules to threaten or imply that a scholarship will be revoked, if the coach is using that as motivation they need to read the rule book. I also suggest individual contact the Athletic Compliance Office at MSU and file a complaint.
I would also suggest that someone file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request of the university, requesting all e-mails between the coaching staff and athletic/facility officials and also the maintenance records for the pool. This is all public data and MSU is required to supply by federal and state laws, recommend you do it soon before the delete button gets used. The person to contact at MSU for a FOIA request is (the request can be submitted by e-mail also)
Armentrout, Ellen
494 ADMINISTRATION BLDG EAST LANSING MI 48824-1046
517-353-9755
armentr4@msu.edu
Office: General Counsel
Title: Ast Genl Counsel & Foia Off
Alumni Former Athlete
01/09/08 @ 8:32pm
Also, if any athlete of the swim team feels that they are being penalized for speak-up about this issue, they should probably go talk to legal services, since they potential can be covered under whistle blowing laws (even more so for scholarship athletes)
Just something to look into
private
01/09/08 @ 8:47pm
This is a thing of the past…everyone needs to let it go and shut the hell up. Focus on your life whether its swimming, your job or whatever you do, but just drop it already its getting really annoying.
swim dad
01/09/08 @ 9:22pm
Our son called home after the practice with the chemical problems. He gutted out the practice but wasn’t happy with the burns on different parts of his body. According to his account others were having difficulty breathing and some lost their hair afterwards.
If this is true, anyone with a shred of leadership would of called off the practice immediately. This didn’t happen. What happened the next few days is still cloudy to me. Who initiated scheduling practices in the other local pools? Was it the coaching staff or captains? I hope it was the coaching staff!!
I can’t be certain of anything since communication from MSU (coaching staff/athletic department) has been non-existant. My son did tell me that Coach G advised the swimmers not to tell their parents. Why? Was the plan to cover-up this “accident”?
Great leaders step up to the plate and accept responsibility when things happen on their watch. I will be watching how the next few weeks unfold. Not-so-much how the team rebounds and has a successful taper but how the coaches step up and become responsible for their actions. Additionally, how,too, the under age (<21) swimmers hold their end of the bargain and become responsible adults and leaders is important.
At the very least there should be a statement made by the coaching staff. At the conclusion of the Big 10 championship if there isn’t an explanation from the coaching staff or athletic department I plan to make a personal visit to the AD. (condition of scholarship or not)
Good luck to all in the upcoming weeks. Swim fast!
private
01/09/08 @ 9:30pm
Stop looking if it is sooo annoying. I agree Coach Best shouldn’t be affected, he was the only coach acting with any responsibility. And to the ‘current male swimmer’ until you have your own children you will never know what it is like to be a parent…you never stop being concerned about your kids – never -ever.
Swimming Dad
01/09/08 @ 9:44pm
The mens team is bad beacuse the men need to be the leaders and step up and tell the AD or compliance office about violations. The captains should be pro team, not pro coach. They need to be leaders. The men and woman captains were choosen for their quietness about coach activities and fear of retribution of the coaches. STEP UP CAPTAINS....BE LEADERS NOT QUIET....PROTECT YOUR TEAM MATES NOT PUNISH FOR SPEAKING OUT.
swimming mom
01/09/08 @ 10:09pm
Thank you swim dad! The girls on this team have been the ones to speak up. I believe that the boys have been threatened that the men’s team will not be around next year if they speak out…and that their scholarships will be in jeopardy. The captains were “selected” and “prompted” to speak to the reporter. The rest of the team was advised not to speak to any reporters because they will distort their words. As far as people making comments about parents to stay out of it, and let their kids be adults….guess what…these young adults have voiced their concerns to the administration and nothing has come of it. Those of you defending the coaches haven’t seen the personal emails that have been sent to these families….or heard the phone calls and were present at the personal meetings. Sorry, when you go through the proper channels to help make things right, and nothing happens, you need to take the next step.
This site has brought unity to this team. I look at this as a postive and not a negative. Let’s all be Spartans and help our kids through this time. Go State….Good Luck this weekend!!
Bryant Steele
01/09/08 @ 10:37pm
I cannot believe I seriously read all of those posts! As a former swimmer of just 2 seasons ago I felt like I should get in line and say something. This is not the fault of the coaches. Anybody making claims that the swim coach is in charge of IM WEST knows nothing about the swim program. Just as Mark Dantonio does not add fertilizer to Spartan Stadium, Matt Gionodis does not add the chlorine to the IM West pool. Coach Gionodis can be very vocal at times but I know from experience when you do not want to swim due to conditions you can leave without any repercussions. I did not want to swim outside when I felt it was too cold for me and Matt had no issues with me not swimming that practice. I have continued respect for the coaches and cannot believe that such a big deal was made of such a peculiar event. I have swam in pools with too much chlorine in the past and felt uncomfortable as some of the MSU swimmers might have. But I have also learned that it is part of the sport to learn to deal with these conditions in order to meet your goals.
Best of luck to the Spartans! Go Green!!
Bryant Steele
seriously?
01/09/08 @ 11:02pm
Swimming Mom,
You can’t be serious. The men’s has never been threatened that the program will be cut or we will lose our scholarships. That is absurd. There is a difference between a men’s team and a women’s team…just think about it. As a member of this team i take offense to this and do not appreciate you making comments like that. You may be a parent but you have no idea what our opinions of the subject are. It’s natural for a parent to be concerned but, i hate to tell you, you don’t know all the details. This site has also not brought any unity to this team, if you read the posts it’s obvious that certain swimmers are calling out other swimmers through the cloak of the internet. Even worse, it’s this news post has become a warzone for CERTAIN parents and ex-swimmers(we know who you are) to round people up for a swim coach witch hunt. I do respect your concern though.
EXPLOSION POCKET!
01/09/08 @ 11:04pm
Does anyone have the number for the hotpocket hotline? Cause I just put mine in the microwave for the recommended two minutes (with the sleeve) and it exploded all over. I seem to have thrown away the box and cannot find the number anywhere online or in the phone book.
Emmanuel Goldstein
01/09/08 @ 11:22pm
Ever heard of muriatic acid, otherwise known as hydrochloric acid? Well, I’ve worked at a pool not too far from MSU for over four years, and we treat our water with this highly-corrosive chemical agent now and then for corrective purposes. In other words: there’s more going in your pool than chlorine, and too much of it can really hurt you.
Pete Politi
01/10/08 @ 7:25am
Thank you Bryant Steele for being the first former or current swimmer to actually put your name on your post. As for the rest of you on here who are calling for coaches heads under “private” and “anonymous”, its time to grow a set kids.
I swam at MSU for 4 years. After a dissapointing freshman year followed by a sophmore year where I missed half the season because of illness, I had lost alot of the love that I used to have for the sport. Going into my senior year I told myself to just stick it out because I felt that I owed it to my teamates and my family. I really didnt care if I swam fast or not.
That summer Manny Noguchi was hired by MSU as an assistant. Before the school year even started he called me in for a meeting. A meeting that I walked out of with alot more confidence and a desire to work hard. My senior year of swimming was the most challenging year of training that I can remember. He kicked the sh*t out me on a daily basis. There were plenty of times where I would be cursing him out in my head in the middle of sets because they were so hard. Looking back on it, I love him for it. I have never wanted to swim fast for someone as bad as I did for Manny, nor have I ever pushed myself so hard for someone.
At Big Tens my senior year for whatever reason (it definately was not beacuse of the coaches or the training), I swam poorly on the first two days. On the final day I had one last chance to go out and swim fast. By this point, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. 100 more yards and I was done with swimming, FOREVER! I honestly didnt really care about how fast I swam. I still got up for the race and gave everything I had one last time for one reason, Manny. Unfortunately, my last race of my college career wasnt my best.
I got out of the pool dissapointed but then I realized that it was over. I started walking back across the bulkhead and gave my dad the thumbs up, because I knew I was done and that we were going out for beers immediately after. But as I started to get closer to our teams bench I started to get upset. I started to think that I had let Manny down with my performance at the meet. As soon I walked over to Manny he started crying. He blamed himself for my performance. I was truly touched that a coach actually cared so much about how I swam. I had never experienced that before.
Looking back on my swimming career, I cant help but think of how different it might have been had I swam under Manny for 4 years. All I can say is that I am extremely fortunate to have been able to swim under him for that 1 year.
Thats my piece. Good luck with the rest of the season Spartans.
Peter Politi
private
01/10/08 @ 8:02am
To MSU....it is finally time for a new aquatic facility! This pool is the worst in the Big 10, an embarrassment. Even our high schools in Michigan have built better facilities.
private
01/10/08 @ 8:36am
To the reporter that wrote the article, do a “comp” on the pools in the Big Ten compared to ours. Then research area high school pools hint: Holland, Jenison, Okemos, Northville, Novi, Monroe, Groves, Seaholm, Cranbrook, etc. (if anyone knows of other pools, please assist). As an MSU alumna and former swimmer I see this as being the next step to building a better program!
private
01/10/08 @ 9:08am
I think the follow up story really needs to be about what chemicals were in the pool and whether or not it’s dangerous.
Swim Mom
01/10/08 @ 9:34am
As a parent of a current Freshman swimmer, I can’t believe how insane this has gotten. As per my swimmer’s wishes, I will not reveal my name but I will say that this swimmer has experienced all sorts of water conditions. There are particular pools in Indiana where she had competitions that left her with the exact same symptoms as with IM West. Sometimes this just happens and it is nothing new to any swimmer at this level. This article drastically over-exagerated the situation.
As for the comments made about the coaches, what more could they have done? They did test the water and all the tests showed acceptable chemical levels. I am positive that had there been any results from the tests that prooved the water “unswimable,” the swimmers would have been sent to swim at one of the other two pools on campus (as they were once there was indication that the water conditions were poor). The vicious attacks on the coaches are completely out of line. They may not be perfect but I have never seen my daughter happier than she has been these past few months. She is an adult and can take care of herself as she should. I appreciate that some of you are trying to look out for these swimmers but this is a matter for their team to deal with and comments like some written above only seek to divide a team that has worked through the season to become one. Thank you-
-Swim Mom
Cheering Section
01/10/08 @ 10:07am
Good Luck this weekend Spartans. We will be there to cheer you on.
Remember why you are there and make yourselves proud. Swim fast.
GO GREEN GO WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom Munley
01/10/08 @ 11:03am
As a former swimmer, I am embarrased to see the posts above. The swimming and diving team has enough challenges without self-destructing from within. Unfortunately websites like this allow posts to made by someone claiming to be “private.” This means people can call out their own opinion without taking ownership for what they are saying. Any true Spartan would stand up and voice their criticism and sign their name to it. Instead there is only cheap shots posted by cowardly people, most of whom I am confident do not deserve to wear green and white, and who by posting anonymously demonstrate that loud and clear.
In 15 years of being associated with MSU Swimming, I can say with 100% certainty that any swimmer who dedicated themselves entirely to being successful at swimming, and at school, acheived both while they were here. The ones who didn’t dedicate themselves and didn’t have the success they thought they were entitled to, were the same ones who are quick to blame a coach rather than looking in the mirror.
The shots taken at Matt G. are ridiculous. If someone’s feelings are hurt because of what Matt may have said to get them to swim faster, I would like to point out that it was probably much deserved. (I think there were less than 5 individual scorers at Big Ten’s last year, not including diving) And if you can’t take a little heat from a coach, whether you are a male or female swimmer, maybe you shouldn’t be swimming at a Big Ten school. There are a number of division III schools who I am sure would be happy to have you swim for them and have your parents money.
I only hope that the real spartans on the team are focused on training hard and swimming fast. The ones who are not will use this episode as another excuse. Those are the same people who should consider excusing themselves from the team as they should not be representing MSU.
Go Green!
an alum
01/10/08 @ 2:01pm
Mr. Munley, just wondering, I have an honest question…how many Big Ten wins has Coach G.had sence he has been at MSU? Also, if here are not many who is to blame?the recruiters?? How many NCAA qualifiers has Coach G had while Head coach at MSU? Just wondering.
I am McLovin
01/10/08 @ 4:49pm
I was traveling in Africa and saw a quote on a picture at a mission school, it was in war torn Sierra Leone. “When on every bad mouth a padlock is hung, then there shall be the greatest peace on earth”. I know Tom Munley and respect him and as a former athlete, not a swimmer, I agree with his opinion. It’s not the hard working athletes that complain it’s the people who just show up and expect someone to do the work for them. Swim parents, it’s okay to always be concerned for your kids, let them grow and problem solve on there own. This wasn’t an issue when I was a student athlete because we didn’t have cell phones or the internet, we didn’t call mom and dad we just fixed the problem. Cut the umbilical.
Tom Munley
01/10/08 @ 5:14pm
To ‘an alum’
I am not sure on the exact numbers or performance, but the following is from the media guide. The Big Ten record is not included in the guide, but I think I understand your point. I am not saying that the performance of the team over the past few years warrants blind support, but I do feel that the misguided comments of a few disgruntled swimmers and parents do not serve a productive purpose. If someone has the feeling that there should be a change, let them express it to the athletic administration. My only suggestion would be that a person should have a history of supporting the program. Those who do not support it, should not question the results. I personally support Matt G. and think he runs a good program. Having seen the comments above, I would hope that what Matt takes away from this is that he needs to discriminate a little more on attitude in terms of who he recruits, so that there are more leaders, and less whiners, for lack of a better word.
“In his four seasons as head coach at Michigan State, Gianiodis’ teams have made their mark in the pool and in the classroom. Since 2004, 14 varsity records have been broken by Spartan swimmers and divers. The program has been represented at the NCAA Championships in 2004 and 2005. In that span, Gianiodis has also coached swimmers to the 2004 South African and the 2006 Puerto Rican national teams.
Under Gianiodis’ direction, the Spartan teams have also excelled academically. In 2006, both the men and women garnered top 20 rankings in Division I for academic performances. In 2007 the men’s team again finished in the top 20 and they won the Directors Cup as a team with the highest GPA within the MSU athletic department.”
Sunshine
01/10/08 @ 6:14pm
Did the swimmer in the article say it was a nice burn. Your not on the beach. What an idiot.
an alum
01/10/08 @ 6:23pm
Mr. Munley, Thank you for the information and your insite.
Hot Pocket
01/10/08 @ 8:54pm
This post is regarding the previous hot pocket post. I believe i have found your hot-line number: (440) 248-5170. Sorry that this post took a while… and i hope your microwave/room is o.k. from the explosion.
P.S. the pepperoni and meatball hot pockets tend to have the largest explosion radius.
all the best,
Hot Pocketeer.
private
01/10/08 @ 10:46pm
If only you could all witness the covering their asses and the BS they are concocting you would laugh. They have their snitches and spys hard at work so swimmers watch what you do and say on facebook,My-space etc. they are watching and doing their best to discredit you.
private
01/11/08 @ 8:54am
FACT: 1 women’s Big Ten win since G’s reign. Against Iowa last year. Then AT Big Ten’s lost to Iowa.
FACT: Scored 44 points at women’s Big ten championship (thanks to our diver’s racking up the points). Worst Big Ten performance in thirty years.
FACT: Swimmers swam in toxic water for three days. Diving coach pulled his diver’s immediately. Realized situation.
FACT: G had swimmers run around outside to help with their breathing during those practices.
FACT: Team suffered mouth sores, bleeding lips, burned/itching skin, gastro issues, hair loss (arms and eyebrows).
FACT: Email in regards to swimmers health asking G to take her to doctor. G said he would, didn’t happen. Email sent to Langland’s office, dated 12/30. Toxic practice began 12/28.
FACT: As of today there has been No communication to swimmers or parents about situation. Don’t know what chemical was in pool.
FACT: No previous Big Ten coaching experience. No previous NCAA swimming experience. Prior to State, only collegiate coaching experience: two year assistant coach St Bonaventure.
I am working on the stats for the men’s team.
Diregard this email, I did not give my name.
Jim MacMillan '66 SW
01/12/08 @ 11:57am
I can’t say I had the time to read all of the comments but I get the pattern. I’ll limit mine.
I offer no criticism but only observations.
1. Mandy’s comment of 1/8/08 seems the most appropriate.
2. As a retired police officer, I tell you, you must never trust any news media to actually reproduce what you related. As a comment, “no comment” is nearly always the most appropriate and even that usually is manipulated to suit an editor’s purpose.
3. Why does the coach say he will never have the team home for Christmas training again? Jennison was and is good enough for the short break. MSU swimming has produced many top swimmers who have trained there on some basis.
GODBLESS UGEE
01/12/08 @ 1:27pm
I AM A FAN OF’BLOG/BULLETIN BOARD HATER’,BRYANT STEELE AND EVEN MORE SO OF TOM MUNLEYTHEIR COMMENTS ARE RIGHT ON AND SPEAK THE WORDS THAT SHOULD BE SPOKEN.THIS INCIDENT OCCURRED LAST YEAR.IT HAPPENED...IT’S OVER.ASIDE FROM GETTING WAY OFF TOPIC THE MAJORITY OF RESPONSES HERE SEEM TO BE FROM MALCONTENT PEOPLE WITH AN AGENDA.GOD BLESS YOU COACH G, COACH MANNY AND COACH KATHLEEN AND THE ENTIRE MSU SWIM TEAM AND THEIR FAMILIES!MAY GOD KEEP A HEDGE OF PROTECTION AROUND ALL OF YOU.
MSU alum '79
01/12/08 @ 7:36pm
CLUE #1 for the coaches: The swimmers were complaining about a burning sensation on their skin. They were not complaining about the quality or difficulty of the workout. These kids are D-1 athletes; listen to them. If the coaches don’t know how to test the chemical levels, they should learn. Most of their swimmers probably learned how to test chemical level while working as life guards. Maintenance staff make mistakes; the coach should know how to verify the safety of the training facility.
QUESTION #1: What does this mean? “...chemical levels in the pool were the result of maintenance and construction to the pool earlier in the month…” What type of chemicals impact water quality for weeks? TEST the water BEFORE the swimmers are affected! Good grief!
QUESTION #2: Why did the MSU swim team stay on campus during break? If this is the trend in the Big Ten, then so be it. However, if other universities sponsor their swim team to practice in Hawaii or the Caribbean, I would hope MSU can send their swimmers to Florida (at the very least). The MSU swim team already has an embarrassingly out-of-date facility in which to practice and host meets. Are they getting short-changed for the holiday two-a-days, too?
private
01/12/08 @ 9:40pm
Jim, please read all of the comments. Keep in mind 1 big ten win for the women’s team in (now) 5 YEARS. Worst Big Ten performance in the championship meet in 30 YEARS. We want change. WE need a better coach! Jim, why did the diving coach pull his kids from practice immediatley following their complaints about the chemical burns in the pool. The swim coach demanded that his swimmers swim in this toxic environment for three days. How do you feel about that?
By the way….what about the cover-up. No report…..health dept. from Ingham and MSU’s own dept. has no report.
private
01/12/08 @ 9:45pm
Tom…know your situation. Many do. Take out the emotional side. Please try to do the best for MSU swimming. Before you defend a person, please be educated enough to research the other view. You might be extremely dissapointed. Go Green, Go White.
Robert Pringer
01/14/08 @ 7:46pm
It’s good this came to light .. to help highlight the interaction that should occur between parents and students, parents and the university. It likely won’t happen at this level again.
I do question how many parents actually made a trip to the university to watch a practice during this time. From comments made by those involved, it happenned more than one practice, more than one day.
Sure, most parents do live outside the Lansing area … but for many it would be a 1, 2 or 3 hour drive into East Lansing. As a former swimmer (not at MSU), our pool doors were open so anybody could wander in and sit.
Aside from simply watching the competitions, stop in and watch a practice or two (you’ll see your student swim many, many more yards). But aside from that, play a more active role in your studen’t daily lives outside their final grades, outside their competitions.
Even though this chemical situation may be over, pop in on occassion to see how you’re studen’t doing … when there isn’t a competition scheduled. (if you don’t have time, have a grandparent stop in for a day to watch a practice).
Did the diver’s parents know they were making training trips to UM? And did the swimmers make that info known to their parents at the time? (I would think swimmers & divers would talk on occassion, or know the absence of the other team). With any communicaiton, would seem an occassional parental visit to East Lansing would have been occurred.
Stay involved with your students throughout the process, and not just respond after the fact. Some parents & many grandparents have time in their days they could fill. Watch a practice and stay involved.
... I could blame one day on the coaches or university administration. Multiple days, and the team & parents shoulder a part of the blame. The longer the events went on, the more I question where the parents were during this time.
private
01/15/08 @ 2:20pm
Robert Pringer….your wrong
MSU ALUM
01/15/08 @ 3:33pm
I think it is now time to just get some answers. When was the pool closed for maintence? The students left around the 18th of December and returned on the 27th. What was done after the problem was detected? Was the pool properly rinsed and drained. Mr. Pringer asked if the swimmers and divers talk alot of time they practice at the same time so the swimmers were aware the divers were not practicing. I think the other issue the university faces is if the swim team parents have concerns for the safety of their students will they be comfortably allowing them to return to these coaches for another year. Maybe the university needs to see who is available?
Former MSU Swimmer
01/17/08 @ 2:36pm
As a former MSU swimmer that has traveled to many pool around the country, I would ask all of you throwing around statistics about how MSU performs in the Big Ten to think of this: You’re an excited high school kid on a college visit and in trying to woo you (as much as one can be woo-ed within NCAA regulations) and the walk you into the grand facilities at IM West. My high school pool puts IM West to shame. MSU coaches are forced to swim outside until the last possible date because the little watering hole they claim for a pool inside does not have the space to balance a Sprint, Stroke, Mid-D, and Distance group of a Men’s AND Women’s team. Don’t blame the coaches, blame the University who put millions into luxury boxes at Spartan Stadium they can’t even sell instead of giving MSU a state of the art work out facility at all! the least of being the pool.
As to whoever was wondering why the team stayed in EL this year over break- same problem: Swim Teams don’t bring money into the school- so the school doesn’t give back. These college kids can’t be asked to pay for a required training trip, so in East Lansing they remained.
And for parents asking for information: You sent your 18 year old kids to school, no coach owes you an email, your kid is on their own, if you want to complain about something, try asking your kid to stand up and say something to the coach they spend 20+ hours a week with. It may make their next 3 years alittle easier and if they’re afraid of getting cut for it, then it isn’t really a team they want to be on, is it?
private
01/17/08 @ 4:03pm
Alum: that is why there are no senior girls on the team. They’ve been cut, or have quit. Guys care more about the scholarship, they’ll put up with the crap.
Agreed a new pool is needed as well as experienced coaches. UMM, why did the other two coaches leave(?) their former jobs…..just food for thought. What year did you swim?
penguin
01/17/08 @ 5:42pm
Ohio State University built a 60 million dollar natatorium about 5-6 years ago (not approximate). Kept the same coaches. Mens team, great performance. Women’s team bottom of the big ten. OSU just fired their women’s coach. They had great recruits, state of the art facility, but didn’t have the coaching. Heard they hired Auburn’s asst. coach. Bet the women’s team will have a great team in the next couple of years. Look out Minnesota.
The fact is: ONE Big Ten win in five years is unacceptable. But State will keep these coaches, kids will continue to leave the program, and their swimming experience will just be a bad memory.
duck
01/17/08 @ 6:00pm
atmospherically speaking what does this mean, “My personal highlight was the thick fog in the circle pool when we opened the doors for fresh air” quote, Matt G from MSU blog. What the hell was in this pool’s water??????????????????
swan
01/17/08 @ 7:15pm
To all of those alums defending the program: Don’t you want to make it better? Honestly, you don’t know what’s going on. I am beginning to think that you want it to stay at the bottom, it’s easier. It’t an excuse for some athletes. This is just so sad for MSU.
Sean Hickman '90
01/17/08 @ 7:31pm
I coach Brighton High School boys and take my team to Florida for X-mas training. About 5 years ago we had a similar chemical imbalance in the water which resulted in the water taking the hair and skin off my guys body. My guys complained to the point that I considered pulling them from the water. I asked one of my chaperones if he thought I should pull his son and the team out of the water as I might be traumatizing them? He said “S*#t no! By the time I was their age, I had already been shot twice. They can suck it up.” We did and our team was tougher for it. I’m sure State can built on it also.
private
01/17/08 @ 8:13pm
It was muriatic acid that they used to clean the tiles. This recently killed a man in the Detroit area. Very, very serious. This was not just a “shocking” of chlorine to the pool. I guess it is going to take someone to be seriously injured before people realize that chemicals are not to be taken lightly. Why do you think the diving coach pulled his kids immediatley, but the swim coaches kept the swimmers in the pool for three days?
Sean, coming from a physician, did you consider the long term effects on the liver if these chemicals were ingested? So you think it is ok to have your swimmers “lose skin” as you so stated? Consult a toxicologist, you may think twice the next time you tell your kids to suck it up. Do you know how to check the alkaline of the water?
I know a few families that swim at Brighton. Hope you are taking care of your swimmers.
Sean Hickman '90
01/17/08 @ 8:57pm
Private 1/17/08 @ 8:13 p.m.
Fact or opinion? Could you please provide proper reference for your statements: “This recently killed a man in the Detroit area. Very, very serious. This was not just a “shocking” of chlorine to the pool.” Add a source for each of these comments. For example: Hydrochloric acid is used to control the PH in a swimming pool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid. Offering your opinion on the topic is one thing. Trying to make an unsupported point, especially an anonymous one, is questionable. I’m sure the kids are fine. What studies can you point to that a chemical imbalance in a swimming pool is going to have long term affects on the liver? Perhaps you could compare this liver damage to the binge drinking of college students? http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/college/a/aa990922.htm
private
01/17/08 @ 9:33pm
Hey Sean-We have to keep it private because of retribution.If you could read you would realize this goes way beyond the pool. You would also realize what a complete idiot you sound like.Suck it up?! wow you’re a tough guy.What a point you make about binge drinking! Smart too!
Sean Hickman '90
01/17/08 @ 9:57pm