Police: woman reports being drugged, sexually assualted

If she already met him, wouldn’t she know his name? Or what kind of car he drove? This is like that chick in Holmes who said she was raped when really nothing happened.

This is exaaaaaactly why you don’t meet people off of MySpace.

I always like reading the comments of the sexual assault articles. Unfortunately I actually agree with everything that was said this time. I can not freaking believe this story. Really? The girl didn’t get a room number? or license number? or Residence Hall? or color of car? or the NAME OF THE SUSPECT. Seriously ladies. Lets be a little more responsible ok. You can save a lot of other girls this same problem if you just provide those details.

I feel like it’s a tough call. The problem is that there ARE girls who are willing to take advantage of the fact that most people are eager to support rape victims. That not only victimizes the man involved, it lessens the legitimacy of ACTUAL rape victims.

Although, I definitely agree with MSU Alum… there’s way too much of a precedent for blaming the woman.

Why does everyone assume that because the State News and police did not publish the suspect’s name, description, car, and other information that the victim doesn’t know it? And, why does everyone blame the victim? It’s no wonder only about forty percent of rape victims come forward (Check Rainn for that statistic). Do you know six women? Statistically one of them has been raped. Now when we turn the tables on the victim, instead of providing them with all of the support necessary to recover, why would they come forward? Who would want to go through the most traumatic experience of his/her life, to only then be put on trial for it, and told they deserved it or were “willing?” It is sad that we live in a society that condones sexual violence against women (and sometimes men) by silencing victims when they try to speak out, and attacking the victims’ character, especially from a short blurb in a newspaper.

Actually… false reports make up less than 3% of all rapes reported (which if we remember is only 40%)... so no… they are not common. There are not hordes of women waiting to manipulate the unfair, victim blaming system. Instead of criticizing those that come forward, how about we start supporting them? Novel concept, I know.

I also can believe that people are blaming the victim. This woman was drugged and sexually assaulted and people don’t care that this man is still running the streets, most likely violating other women. I have to disagree with Carolyn’s comment about people believing women who say they are raped. People NEVER believe victims of sexual assault, just take a look at the comments made above. I would just like victims to know that there are people who believe you. The Sexual Assault Program at MSU provides a 24 hour crisis hotline: 517 372 6666. Also we provide advocacy to survivors who come to sparrow hospital and there is free counseling in the counseling center or with the listening ear.

Rape is the only crime where the VICTIM is consistently blamed for it instead of the perpetrator. I can’t believe the insensitivity and blatant ignorance of some of these comments.

It can take a lot of strength to not blame the victim. If we admit that this can happen to people who weren’t doing anything wrong, then it can happen to us, or people we care about. I’ll quote a great mind, Dr. Rebecca Campbell, in her book Emotionally Involved: The Impact of Researching Rape:
“We need to believe we will not be raped. Yet such thinking creates a paradox for women: if it won’t happen to me, then, because rape does indeed happen, and frequently at that, it must be happening to others. There must be something different about me – the one who won’t be harmed – and them – those who will. We must believe, at some level, that others do something or don’t do something to prevent their own victimization. But rape is never the victim’s fault. By definition, rape is an act of unwanted, forced (or coerced), sexual contact. The rapist, not the victim, deserves the blame. To feel safe, however, we must believe in out own capacity to control our lives and protect ourselves.”
Thank you, LMW, for providing SACI’s number. SACI is a great campus resource. Like you said, The Listening Ear also provides these services. Their number is (517)337-1717.

Dear Jeez, you don’t feel so bad about rape? I think that if I agreed with your narrow minded, hateful statements, I could say the same thing about lynching blacks. (It’s not too long ago it was acceptable to joke about or (God forbid) hunt down a black person and hang them from a tree… for fun (a.k.a. to keep them in fear of whites so that they knew their place)!) After all, they have just taken jobs and resources from the White man, raped our women, and whatever karma they have coming to them for those sins, I guess we shouldn’t feel bad about enslaving and torturing them. But women… they’re different. They have been tortured and enslaved for centuries in many different ways (like various other groups of people throughout history)-so if they dress or behave in a certain way, they deserve every bodily violation that comes their way. ...sorry, that just doesn’t add up.

I think there are a lot of people who might consider re-evaluating how they think about whatever brand of discrimination they use as a tool to keep other people down-whether that be people of a different race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, etc. Think about how different this strain of comments would be if the victim was a racial minority (whether it be black, Asian, Latino, Latina, Middle Eastern, etc.) beaten or violated based on his/her minority status? Who cares what she was doing or what information she remembered in her half drugged state the day after-why do we validate rapists thoughts and actions when we blame the victim? This prick is STILL roaming free while the victim is put on trial by the ignorance of society-and the worst part is that he’s not the only one out there. So Jeez, it might just be a good idea to stop hating and discriminating and keep your dick in your pants and your tongue in your closed mouth. Ya dig?

I’m just going to say that I fully support the victim in this crime and that I’m proud of her for coming forward. I hope more women will have the strength to do so. Please ignore the ignorance of some of those that have posted above and do what needs to be done.

For those of you who believe that this didn’t happen and that she is lying, please, please, please seriosuly examine those beliefs. There is no way for any of us to know what did or did not happen without a doubt- we weren’t there. By stating that it did not happen, you are sending a message, a very strong message, to all women who are raped not to come forward, that they won’t be believed, that they will be criticized and ridiculed, and that if you do manage to believe them, you well tell them that it was their fault. And if you are wrong, you have just inflicted even further trauma on a woman who has just experienced the most violating crime there is. Is that worth it? Is it realy worth it, when there is no way for any of us to “prove” that this did or didn’t happen based on a short news story?

My message is this: be careful about having such a vehement, hurtful opinion about a social problem that you may know very little about. (yes date rape drugs affect memory, yes rape victims may be traumatized enough not to pay attention to identifying the guy, people react differently, don’t base your assumptions about people based on how people “should” react to crime on tv).

Personally, I believe rape victims who come forward. (If the victim in this case is reading, I BELIVE YOU). This is based on years and years of informing myself about this issue. This opinion is partly based on the fact that rape victims have to go so much after they report, that I can’t see ever wanting to go through the shame and humiliation invovled, just to try and make a guy look bad. On top of that, the likelihood that it would work and the guy would get put in jail, is minimal, conviction rates in sexual assault cases are dismal.

Not believing rape victims is a strong societal message that we are all given. Before you spout this the the next time, think about what message you are sending to someone that has been raped and is afraid to come forward, and think about whether you have enough information to back up your opinion, or if you are just spouting something you were socialized into believing because it is more comfortable to believe that women lie than admit that men rape.

For the most part I am in complete agreement that those who report being raped should be treated as if their claim is real, because in most cases, regardless of where you get your statistics, it is. It is certainly a terrible thing that so many rapes go unreported, leaving many sexual predators out on the streets to victimize others. The difficult issue here however, is that false rape accusations do occur. Statistics on this are notoriously unreliable and while all respectable sources indicate that they occur relatively infrequently, the fact remains that they do occur, especially when alcohol and (non-date rape) drugs are added to the mix, often creating a he said she said situation where it can be difficult to deduce what actually happened. Before I get jumped on for this, all I am saying is that it is a possibility that needs to be considered in cases where it is appropriate. Neither the alleged assailant nor the alleged victim should be judged, either way, before the justice system can run its course. That is why we rely on a neutral justice system for all crimes, and while the general public view is useless and has no place in deciding whether a person is guilty or innocent, liar or truth-teller, the sad fact is that this is not the case, and anyone who rushes to judgment on either the alleged perpetrator or alleged victim is a fool.

As someone who has never been rape, Ryan, you are correct that you don’t know anything about what that is like. (Not because of your gender, there are survivors of all genders, and there are women who are not survivors and also do not know what it is like to experience a rape.)
And even if you were a survivor, everyone responds differently. Just because another survivor responds differently from you does not mean their response is wrong or invalid.

And that’s really the end of it. You should have just stopped there. Why would you consider speculating on how you would respond after admitting complete ignorance to what that situation would be like?

Now you may think, as someone who has never experienced rape, and didn’t just experience a rape in the last couple minutes or hours that getting into a car with the person who raped you would be a bad idea, but I can tell you as someone who has experienced rape that I don’t find it shocking that a survivor might at that moment feel she is better off not arguing with the person, making them angry, and to just go along with the situation until she is away from them and in a place where SHE feels safe.
You might find the residence hall the safest feeling place you know of. But even as a student who lived in the residence halls for 2 years, and who is fairly familiar with them, I don’t consider them the safest place to be, I certainly would not find them the safest place to be following a rape. Now, considering that this woman was not affiliated with MSU, how can it possibly be that surprising that she wouldn’t find a building she’s likely unfamiliar with, likely surrounded only by strangers she knows nothing about and the man who just raped her, not to be the safest place to be following a rape?

The safest place I can think following a rape would probably be my own apartment (depending on specifics of the situation), or staying with a very close friend whom I trust.

And you know what? Based on this article she did survive, she wasn’t killed, there is no mention of her being physically or sexually assaulted a second time for making that choice, and I would think that would be something the state news would mention. So, sounds like she made a pretty decent choice in that situation! She made a choice that allowed her to get to a place where she felt safe, without further injury to herself. What about that is wrong?

(oh, and how many survivors do I know who have gotten into the car with their rapist? There is, myself, pretty much every other person I know who was raped by their partner, most of the survivors of incest I know, and a fair number of those who were raped by friends at parties with no transportation of their own….
I also know survivors who are still friends with their rapist, survivors who are still dating their rapist, survivors who stayed with a partner who raped them for weeks, months, even years after the firsttime they were raped. I know survivors of incest who have forgiven their rapist, who love their rapist. As well as survivors who feel it is better for them to not report it than to tear apart their family and deal with the emotional guilt of that on top of being raped. I know survivors who didn’t report because they were afraid of being killed by their rapist if they spoke out about it. I know a LOT of survivors who didn’t report because you, Ryan, cannot even begin to imagine what it is actually like to deal with not only being raped, but then to have everyone tell you it was your fault, that you are clearly lying, to pull up all your sexual history and call you a slut, to use that as a defense, to have whether or not you shave your pubic hair and what kind of underwear you wear used as evidence against you in court, and after all that to have the person who raped you found not guilty because there wasn’t enough proof/because you were a slut/ because it was just a case of “he said she said”/et cetera, and then be told that because a jury found that person not guilty, that is proof that you are nothing but a lying bitch who is making all the “real victims” look bad.

great post erin.

Erin, you act like I have no sympathy for those that are raped. Please don’t be so foolish.

“I also know survivors who are still friends with their rapist, survivors who are still dating their rapist, survivors who stayed with a partner who raped them for weeks, months, even years after the firsttime they were raped. I know survivors of incest who have forgiven their rapist, who love their rapist.”

That, however, is foolish. Rape victims need to have the strength to stand up for themselves. You act like I have no experience with rape, this is not the case: my cousin was raped two and a half years ago.

As for your rant on whether or not it should be reported, and how people who have been raped are assaulted as being sluts, etc…I don’t know what kind of people you’ve grown up with, Erin, but when my cousin was raped, I and the rest of my family were fully behind her. It certainly did not tear her family apart, it brought them closer together against the rapist. She knew her rapist for two years, and he is still in jail because of the court case that, admittedly, I did not attend.

I admire my cousin for her strength in a tough time. As for you, Erin, I question your ability to think clearly: You say that you actually got into a car with your rapist? You thought you would be safer in a car with him, where he has complete control, than an area with people around? Had you screamed rape, had he tried to run, I guarantee any guy within the vicinity would take him down and kept him down until the police arrived.

I think you’re naive, Erin, in saying that, in retrospect, she made the right choice by getting in his car because in the end she wasn’t killed.

What if she was? What if right now, instead of a rape, we had a rape/murder case because she was too foolish to yell “RAPE! RAPE!”

It’s no severe mental change that happens when you’re raped, it’s fear, plain and simple. Get over yourself and get over your fear, then maybe rapists wouldn’t so commonplace. If a rapist knew he had a good chance of getting caught, he probably wouldn’t rape. To all future rape victims: Be a grown-up. If you’re raped, let other people know. Anybody that finds you disgusting for being a rape victim is certainly nobody that I have ever met.

And shame on you, Erin, for perpetuating the myth that rape victims are subject to more abuse after being raped.

Ryan, that’s the hallmark of privilege- placing more weight on what you THINK you MIGHT have done IF you had been in a certain situation than on the experience of countless people who have actually lived it.

And please- you know someone who was raped so you “have experience” with it? That’s great that your family stood behind your cousin, but I guarantee you there were people with no connection whatsoever to the situation overanalyzing it and making judgments about what she should have done to prevent someone else from making the choice to attack her and trivializing the crime, just as you’re doing now. The fact that you “have experience” with rape makes it all the more reprehensible that you would automatically cast a suspicious eye on the victim in this case.

Erin, thanks for sharing your story. That’s quite brave of you and I hope it will give other people the courage to report it when they are victimized.

And I think it’s pretty clear that this Jeez toolbox has faced a lot of rejection from the ladies.

“Get over yourself and get over your fear” Spoken like a true imbecile. Ryan you have no idea what kind of fear comes over you during such a terrifying incident, especially if this poor girl woke up and had no recollection of the previous evening. I, like you have spent my adult life projecting my bravado onto others. It’s not until you are truly in an environment where fear grips you like a vice that you can speak intelligently about such issues. I spent 12 months in Iraq and I can tell you from personal experience that until you have faced fear, you have no idea what you’re going to do. The first time I heard a rocket impact less than 100 meters from me I had no idea what to do. I practically froze and was overcome with more adrenaline than at any other point in my life. I kept thinking “I can’t believe this is actually happening. This is so surreal.” Only after experiencing similar situations over and over again was I able to “get over my fear” and deal with the situation in a positive and productive manner. I can only imagine that this is similar to what may go through the mind of a rape victim during an actual assault. Ryan, it’s time that you educate yourself by experiencing life and not just reading about it. Spend some time volunteering for rape crisis centers or suicide prevention centers to get some real world experience as to what these victims go through on a daily basis. Only then can you begin to comprehend what something like this must be like.

someone else, the results of toxicology reports often are not available for several days or weeks.

Ryan, you’ve spent the majority of your posts here questioning the credibility of the woman in the article and telling Erin, an actual rape survivor, that the way she handled it was wrong, that rape victims (except your cousin- she gets a free pass!) are stupid, and that rape is caused not by people choosing to rape others, but by the victim’s fear of being raped. Then you actually SHAME Erin for perpetuating the “myth” that rape victims experience further victimization upon reporting the assault. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

In your claims that you actually have sympathy for rape victims, you come across as one of the most disgusting rape apologists I’ve ever seen and also prove Erin’s point in the process.

Also, for Someone Else, I wanted to add that often times date rape drugs are undetectable due to how fast they are cleared from the body: thus another reason why they are used by the assailant. By the time the victim is able to reach a place to be treated, any evidence of drugging may already be gone.

Erin and Jeff, you have kept my faith in humanity alive, which is saying something considering the degree of negativity that is present here. My thanks to you both for sharing your stories, as well as to everyone who has contributed to steering this from a hateful and cowardly rant into a thoughtful, open, and productive dialogue regarding a topic that is obviously in severe need of attention.

“Ryan, it’s time that you educate yourself by experiencing life and not just reading about it.”

Sure, I’ll just go get raped. I’ll comment back when I get through my experience and show you all how to correctly handle a rape.

That’s a stupid argument. Majority of the crimes committed are stupid because people are stupid. Often they end up with the criminal in a worst situation than what they had thought would happen. So don’t give me this “why would someone go through all that trouble…”, you can say the same thing about all those people from that show The World’s Stupidest Criminals.

I don’t understand all of the victim blaming comments. People do get drugged at bar and parties etc. Regardless of that fact a woman or man who drinks too much is not a ‘free pass’ to be assaulted and taken advantage of. I’m ashamed and disappointed in the MSU community for all of its victim blaming and consistent ignorance towards sexual assault and violence. Being assaulted is a highly traumatic incident which is only enhanced when drugs and alcohol play a mix. If you are a survivor or a friend/family member of a survivor know there are people out there who believe you and will help you. The SEXUAL ASSAULT HOTLINE is available 24/7 for anyone who needs to talk or help 517-372-6666

Concerned or have questions about an incident in your life or in the life of someone you care about? Please contact the 24-hour Sexual Assault Holtine. Trained advocates are available for you to discuss your feelings and thoughts about what happened and help you access any help that may choose to seek. Hotline: 517-372-6666. Check out www.endrape.msu.edu

Additionally, for those of you who are concerned about MSU’s culture and safety, and the importance of bringing an end to sexual violence in our community, please send an email to student life [at] msu.edu. put SARVP in the subject line.

We are currently looking for men and women undergraduates to lead mandatory workshops for incoming first year students. This is the Sexual Assault and Relationship Violence Prevention Program. This is the perfect opportunity for you all to become actively engaged in the prevention of sexual assault at MSU.

I agree wholeheartedly that alleged victims of rape should be given every possible social support so long as it does not illegally infringe on the rights of others, including those that have been accused but not convicted. To argue otherwise is simply callous and cruel. It is the judicial system that is impartial and neutral which is why society has charged it with the task of deciding whether a crime has or has not occurred.

Bearing this, and the importance of this issue in mind, making broad claims can add some dangerous misinformation to the discussion. For example, being drunk does not necessarily preclude you from consenting to sex. In order for this to occur the decision-making capability of the individual must be completely absent. Of course involuntary consumption of intoxicants, ie. drugging, would be looked at differently by a court. However, voluntary intoxication that merely impairs your judgment does not per se preclude you from consenting to sex. According to interpretation of M.C.L.A. 750.520, voluntary intoxication, so long as the party is still able to refuse her consent, is not rape.

To make it clear, I feel rape victims should be given every social support possible and it is an awful fact of life that they are not. Legally however, the judicial system is neutral and it is important that our facts are kept straight.

I am not trying to jump on anyone’s case, I am just trying to add some helpful information.

this guy, what you say i believe can be very easily misinterpreted, yes alcohol has been decided to not always remove the ability to consent, but just as it does not remove the ability to consent it does not grant consent either. Also, according to 750.520b.c part i you are correct that it has been decided that some drugs do not necessarily always inhibit ones ability to consent, though they may which is to be determined by experts. also 750.520b.c part ii addresses this further by allowing for the prosecution to argue that the perpetrator had intent, then alcohol would still be considered a weapon and viewed as force. I would love to know more on your sources of information for interpretation. i would refer you to rrain.org for more information. which has the legal definition of “drug facilitated assault” which is “ When drugs or alcohol are used to compromise an individual’s ability to consent to sexual activity”. Alcohol is not consent. To suggest it is so would be a open invitation to allow rapists to go to bars and look for the most trashed individuals and victimize them, this is not the case, because alcohol is legally defined as a drug and in quantity can remove ones ability to consent, further it can also cause people to black out which would also preclude one from consenting. well i am at it, it would be in my opinion very unwise to for a individual to assume a drunk person is consenting, i would refer them to 750.520i Resistance by victim not required.