Racism not erased by Obama's win, real change still needed

Good article. I think a lot of white people voted for him because Obama never brings up any African American issues. A lot of white people like that and feel that Obama being president will cause black people to look up to him as a person to try to be like.

“BARACK OBAMA — White Power in Black Face“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXhG1o620g

These are good questions, good perspective. Obama’s victory is a powerful symbol of white America’s potential to overcome its long-held racism against black people. However, we should not mistake symbolic change with structural change. Schools are still segregated and seperate and unequal, cops still racial profile blacks and latinos, minorities are still denied jobs based on race, white supremacy/privilege is still taught to white children (and college students) within every facet of American life.

I don’t think Obama will bring significant change to the black community. He intentionally avoids race matters as to not upset his white supporters. Obama will improve conditions for blacks — one hopes — only in those areas that overlap with white desires (i.e., health care, ending the war, etc.). That’s a good start, but what happens in a crisis impacting mostly blacks? (i.e., Katrina, or police racial profiling and brutality) Time will tell.

Ok so you believe white people voted for him because they believed in his ideas and policies. Well them please tell me….how many blacks voted for him for the same reason? Not many I would believe because I watched during election time how many areas with large populations of blacks turned out in record numbers to vote for him. Don’t tell me that real change is needed when a large percentage of blacks that voted for him only voted because he was black. If he was a white man with the same ideas would black voters have turned out in record breaking numbers to vote for him? I don’t think so.

For Kyle Mays it is. People like Kyle need to perpetuate racism or else they will have nothing to talk about or no career praying off the innocent

The point of the article was about the eradication of structural racism and whether or not Senator Obama is prepared to do so or even willing to. Whether or not Black people voted for Senator Obama for the same reasons as whites has no relationship to the point of this article because Black people are not the racists, as Malcolm X once stated.

I, Kyle Mays, do not perpetuate racism. It is the structures of this capitalist society that does as well as the apathy of white America. The silencing on conversations regarding the savagely unequal schools in this country, the prison industrial complex that disproportionately effect Blacks and Latinos, the killing of unarmed Black men, and situations like Hurricane Katrina are part of the symptoms that perpetuate racism, but not the root of the problem. Capitalist democracy is the main problem, not those who refuse to silence the conversation on race and racism.

The two responses above Kyle’s are so stupid they do not warrant a response. No wonder republicans lost this election cycle. MSU needs to ratchet up its critical thinking skills training :)

You have to be a complete idiot to deny racism exists, you fall in the column with the holocaust deniers. Racism is as prevalent today as it was 40 years ago, but now its more PC to hide it. Otherwise why would you question african americans voting for a black man and not just a democrat. Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting.

“Capitalist democracy is the main problem”

Your revolution is over, Mr. Mays. Condolences! The bums lost. My advice to you is to do what your father did. Get a job, sir!

“Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting.”

Which is kind of ironic given it was the dems who were the most fervent racists. Check out the percentage in both parties who voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1968. The democrats want to keep minorities perpetually poor and dependent on government because it equals more votes for them.

You’re just looking for a hand-out, like every other bum in this … Are you employed, sir? You don’t go looking for work like that do you? On a weekday?

from my life, then I as I read this, I realized it was another whiney letter to the editor from Mr. Mays. When is it that people like Mr. Mays will realize that this country is not about equality for all, but equality of opportunity for all? Obama had a pretty common, everyday upbringing. He decided he wanted to go into law, worked hard to do so and got into a great school. He decided he wanted to get into politics, worked hard, and was successful. He decided he wanted to run for president, worked hard, and was eventually elected. His story, while not putting the final nail in racism’s coffin, has illustrated that our country does allow opportunity for minorities. Whether an individual minority (or white person, for that matter) rises to this opportunity is in their hands.

In an effort to point to the “structural racism” he claims still exists, he states, “One can go to the south side of Chicago or the east side of Detroit to look and see. Based upon the rhetoric of his campaign, poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.” That doesn’t speak to racism, it speaks to poverty. Why don’t you take a trip to Oscoda, Rogers City, the U.P., or rural appalachia and look and see for yourself. See, I can point out regions where a disproportionate percentage of the population lives in poverty and is largely occupied by a particular race (in this case caucasion), too! Does this mean that we have structural racism against whites? Of course not!

And to the poster who parroted this gem, “racism is as prevalent today as it was 40 years ago,” you have got to be flat-out delusional. Can you honestly look around you and say that?

Bottom line, for racists like Kyle Mays, they will hide behind their cries of racism as long as there is a single white male making more than any minority person or female (never mind the litany of other reasons there might be for a pay difference between any two individuals.) It is easier than actually working to seize the opportunities that this country offers…to everyone.

“Kyle Mays

African American and African studies graduate student”

Since when did African American become a title?? Why doesn’t the State News publish “Caucasian American” or “Asian American” under anybody else’s letters. Why does Kyle need to point out he is black in his title (and black isn’t capitalized as it is not a proper title)?

Also, hate to break it to you, but black people are kinda racist- such as making groups such as the Black Caucus or Black Poets Society, etc. and then not allowing other races to join.

if i spent 6 years getting a worthless degree like kyle i’d want to perpetuate this nonsense too

“Capitalist democracy is the main problem….”

So if the real problem is a capitalist democracy why does it even matter who is president. Obama was elected by a capitalist democracy and unless he decides to trample over the Constitution and replace our democracy with something different, i.e. socialism, fascism, or communism, he and every other president we will have in this country will be democratically elected into a capitalist society. According to your comments the only way we as a country turn from racism is to embrace the ideals of the USSR and the People’s Republic of China which were/are no better off than we, in fact they are worse, in terms of who they have discriminated against in there past. I do not deny that racism still exists in this country, and it is a terrible scar on our history, but I think you need to get off your high horse, stop the pity party, and start being part of the solution. Your comments only further drive a wedge between people in a country who, I believe, are truly trying to move past racism.

To Uhh…,
I assume he is a graduate student in both African American studies and African studies.

You have two options.
Option 1: everyone gets the same and nobody has a chance to change their position in life. We all line up every day for our bread and water rations
Option 2: Everyone has the chance to succeed and improve thier lot in life. Some will fail, some want to fail or do nothing. Those that bust their asses, have a better chance at succeeding.

I choose option 2 because I came from a broken home in Detroit (the glorious East Side you mention) and with option 2, I had a shot of atleast making it.

Top 5 Reasons Kyle Mays has no credibility:
5. He claimed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were not effective.
4. “Capitalist democracy is the main problem”
3. “poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.” No concern for poor whites.
2. He calls America a “so-called democracy” a week after a convincing win in a democratic election by an African American.
1. “I … do not perpetuate racism.”

Racism is dead. It has been replaced by a sort of culturalism and classism. If you wear dreadlocks, white or black, you will be discriminated against. If you grew up in a poor neighborhood, you will be discriminated against. If you have a “accent” you will be discriminated against.

If you were to describe the childhood of Barack Obama without his race described to you… I bet you would not identify it as a typical* African American experience.

*If you can ascribe a typical upbringing to someone.

I was wondering…I agree with your comment, and your last point is dead on. As long as you or I earn more than a minority, racism will exist in Kyle’s mind. And Kyle, I hate to break it to you, go anywhere in the world and you’ll find discrimination or racism. Name me one country in this entire world where some form of discrimination has NOT taken place.

And if you haven’t figured it out, Kyle writes these kinds of letters every few months bringing in a pithy quote from an obscure scholar. To me it basically means he’s parroting something out of the latest book he had to read for a class. He occasionally makes decent points but really he is nothing more than the John Bice or Drew Winter of racism letters/columns.

To the poster that said my response was so stupid it didn’t deserve a response I’d like for you to get your head out of your a**. If you honestly think that some black people didn’t go out to vote for Obama just because he was black then you are clearly living in a fantasy world. As someone who followed the presidential race closely and watched numerous news reports on black voters it’s clear that some black voters were swayed solely on the color of Obama’s skin. Examples….rap star T.I who at 26 says that this is the first time he ever voted. Do you really think he voted for the first time ever because he agreed with Obama’s policies? Or how about the 106 year old black woman in Florida who was also voting for the first time in her life. She stated that she wanted to see a “colored man” elected president before she died. I’m sorry if you think that I’m wrong but this kind of thinking is exactly why people were showing up at polls in record breaking numbers to vote in largely urban areas with high populations of black people living there. It wasn’t about who was the better candidate it was about making history and electing the first “black” president. I hope you think about this when your wealth is being redistributed to help all those who believe that they are entitled to government handouts over getting a job.

I have to admit it, I enjoy the comments by MSUAlumn2001. I wish that I could talk to you in person as you seem to have some intellectual capacity. However, when you talk about discrimination and racism, you are conflating the terms. There has always been discrimination and racism, but they are not in fact the same. Racisms prevalence began with the rise of capitalism in order to justify slavery and colonialism. And is Frantz Fanon really an obscure scholar? Just because you have not read him that does not make him obscure. If you are into existentialism, colonial studies, Black studies, philosophy, etc. you would know who Fanon is. Check his book out “Black Skin, White Masks and The Wrethced of The Earth.

To Mark: How in fact is racism dead when it is tied to capitalism?

I have nothing against poor whites; they are an oppressed group as well. However, history shows us that skin color can be a major indicator of success. I did not claim that the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were unsuccessful, I claimed that they were symbolic. If not, why is it that economic indicators for Blacks are getting worse? No one ever talks about how schools are savagely unequal. If this country was democratic, every child regardless of color or socioeconomic background would be given equal resources and not to mostly privileged, white suburbs.

We do not need to embrace the ideals of the USSR or The People’s Republic of China, for they never had capitalism and are in fact not actually communist or socialist. They are state capitalist, so that point is moot.

You cannot move past racism in thoughts alone or on an individual basis. Racism has real material conditions tied to it. Unless those conditions are taken care of, racism will continue. If these were all taken care of, I would stop writing about race, but until then, as Malcolm X stated, no justice, no peace!

African American Studies was given a title way back in 1968 and San Francisco State. This is a long history but if you would like to have a lesson, please let me know. Further, there is a such thing as Asian American Studies. There is a such thing as Latino studies. There is Whiteness studies, where students can learn about how white people have white privilege, etc. In essence, these minority fields of inquiry were created by what scholars call the sin of omission, whereas they were left out. If they were not left out of certain disciplines, they would not be needed. Black people are not racist by creating niches of their own. These were created as a sort of protectorate for Black students as a way to express themselves on an all white campus. Again, you would have to do some research or reading to know this.

I apologize I was wondering but a quick point of clarification: structural racism effects people of color; that is, in predominantly Black and Latino, and Native American areas of occupancy. I do not deny that poor whites suffer, but that is more specifically capitalism. Whites may experience prejudices or ethno-centrism but not racism. I hope this is clear.

I do appreciate the somewhat intellectual engagement from you all. At least some of you have moved past overtly racist, claims with no proof.

Somebody get Mr. Mays another shovel. He’s gonna need one to keep digging himself deeper into this hole. I’ve never heard someone argue so desperately from a position of victimization.

“structural racism effects people of color; that is, in predominantly Black and Latino, and Native American areas of occupancy. I do not deny that poor whites suffer, but that is more specifically capitalism. Whites may experience prejudices or ethno-centrism but not racism”

Right, I’m a fat man. Structural anti-fattyism discriminates against me, and I think the government needs to create programs to eliminate that structural anti-fattyism. Why should we have to be subjected to small airplane seats, more expensive clothes, and discrimination in employment? No one else has to go to specialty stores to buy clothes. Noboddy else is forced to buy 2 plane tickets for 1 trip. See how easy it is to create a victim class and then justify it? It amazes me how Kyle May’s and others of his ilk act like they have a monopoly on injustice and suffering, that their “oppression” is more critical to address than other groups, while acting like they are saints, with no role in continuing divisiveness. Why don’t we work on eliminating structural gender biases? Oh wait, an overwhelming majority of black voters in California expressed their prejudice by voting to ammend the state constitution to prohibit same sex couples from marrying. Quit acting like your $hit don’t stink, too.

“Black people are not racist by creating niches of their own. These were created as a sort of protectorate for Black students as a way to express themselves on an all white campus.”

This statement may have applied 40,50, or 60 years ago. How is it that you can argue that mainstream society (whites) need to be more inclusive of minorities while simultaneously saying it is acceptable for specific minority groups to self-segregate and exclude others? How is that not, on its face, racist? It is statements like these that make people suspicious of your motives. You can’t argue that you are for equality, while promoting patently unequal practices.

As an exercise to test your statement above, I took a quick tour of Morehouse’s and Grambling’s website (historically black colleges.) Surprise, surprise, I found not 1 single “white poets society” or any other caucasion based group. And there is no way you can realistically argue that MSU is less welcoming to minorties than these historically black colleges are to white students. Now, I have neither the inclination or time to review every historically black college’s student organizations, but I’m pretty confident that you wouldn’t find a single officially recognized whites only group at any of them. How can you justify that?

Face it, Kyle, you’re a racist. You have no desire in seeing equality. I think that you would honestly be terrified by a society that truly was racism free, because then you’d have to find some other excuse to hide your personal inadequacies and failures behind.

I am a racist.

People posting that racism does not exist, or is not the result of institutions, are – as another poster put it – like Holocaust deniers, sick and delusional. During the presidential election poll, after poll, after poll, pointed to great expanses of this great country of ours that said they would not or were reluctant to vote for Obama because of his race. And this was even amongst white working-class Democrats! But more significantly, as Obama pointed out in his speech on race this summer, the 1954 Brown decision was in fact a failure, as the overwhelming majority of American public schools remain deeply segregated and unequal based on race.

Black kids are twice as likely to be expelled or suspended from school than white kids GUILTY OF THE SAME KINDS OF OFFENSES! Blacks and Latinos receive harsher sentences than their White counterparts guilty of the same crimes! African Americans qualified or more qualified for jobs are at highest risk of being discriminated against if employers are able to determine race in advance. White people even discriminate against Blacks based on the sound of one’s accent and the “whiteness” or “blackness” of one’s name! In places like New York City and Milwaukee, African American males looking for working have an unemployment rate of 50% — and that’s among those Blacks with degrees, skills, training, etc. commensurate with their White compatriots.

This is the meaning of institutionalized racism. It’s not in Kyle’s head. If you think that white racism today is a matter of imagination, tell that to the young white lady who tried to join the Klan this past week, and was then shot to death by the racist scum when she tried to back out. Tell that to the young Latino tattoo artist in Manhattan who was beaten and sodomized with a car antenna by New York City police officers (like the Haitian immigrant Abner Louima in 1997, who received similar treatment with a broken broomstick). Tell that Derrick Bell, Amadou Diallo, and the untold number of African American men murdered by police officers each year.

Kyle Mays is not responsible for white terrorism and laws and institutions that discriminate and oppress. White people bear the responsibility for this – either through active participation or passive acceptance of racist laws, policies, and institutional practices.

The most vicious aspect of American racism is not just its existence, but also its denial. White privilege allows for people to opine mindlessly, ignorantly I just hope that African Americans don’t think that Obama’s recent victory is their own. As we can see from the messages on this forum, the battle for racial justice continues, in fact, it has only just begun.

For those on the right (and left) who engage in that activity George Bush and Sarah Palin consider unnecessary called reading, I suggest checking out this short article, “Structural Racism and American Democracy” www.columbia.edu/cu/ccbh/souls/vol3no1/vol3num1art1.pdf

Nothing will ever be enough for the African American population. It doesn’t matter what is done or how time changes, you will always think whites owe you something. Let me just make this very clear: I don’t owe you a thing. There will never be complete equality across the board. There will always be ignorant people (whites and blacks) who will have issues with the other race. You cannot expect everyone to completely understand your side, and you can only ask for handouts and sympathy for so long. Stop complaining, and be happy with how far our nation has come.