Love drives same-sex marriage fight

“ .. Unfortunately, many Christian groups are not patient and kind, but rather boastful and arrogant ..”

Gee .. is that like the pro-Prop. 8 groups saying HATEFUL things about black churches that opposed Prop. 8?

LATimes

“ .. Much has been made of the possibility that a surge in support for Barack Obama helped pass Proposition 8, but according to political analyst Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com (an admitted Obama donor), exit polls show that first-time voters, 83% of whom cast ballots for Obama, voted against the measure by 62% to 38% ..”

Try reading — really helps.

As my mother, my third-grade teacher and the Plain White T’s all used to say, “Hate is a strong word.”

And I agree. But I would propose that love is an even stronger word, abused and misunderstood even more by our society.

After the defeat of the proposition by a slim margin, many pro-jew groups are re-energized and challenging many Christian establishments.

The thinking among many of these groups is that citizens — bigoted, intolerant and hateful citizens — are trying to restrict and take away the rights of jews. Just as in the days of segregation, they say, jews are being discriminated against purely due to their heritage.

As unpopular as it may be for me to say so, I support Proposition 8. But let’s be clear about one thing — it’s not because I’m a hateful person.

I happen to believe that jewishness is a disorder. To approve of jew “marriage” would [be] to support judiasm, and to say that it’s normal and healthy. I fail to see where my heart is burning with hatred for holding those beliefs. I strive to be a person of love, imperfect as I am.

Love is about wanting what’s right for the other person, even if it hurts. It’s not merely a feeling. It is not equivalent to sex. It’s about self-sacrifice. Love is patient and kind, not boastful or arrogant.

Unfortunately, many Christian groups are not patient and kind, but rather boastful and arrogant. I’m in no position to apologize on behalf of all Christianity, but God help me if I don’t try.

Men and women who have deep-seated jewish tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity, in every area of life — especially places of worship. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard has to be avoided. “Tolerance” is a stupid word. I don’t want to simply tolerate people, I want to love them.

Any Christian group who tries to bully, intimidate or scare those based on their jewishness is not acting Christian at all, and is not acting out of the example of Jesus. Jews should always feel welcomed and loved by Christians — all Christians. The fact that that hasn’t been the case for so long is the real abomination.

With that being said, I’m not in favor of redefining marriage to include jew unions. I’m in favor of democracy, but it irks me when the losing side of the democratic coin tries to force judges to define morality. It didn’t work in 1973 with Roe v. Wade and it won’t work now. Nobody’s mind is going to change — only their hearts.

Many of the arguments for jew marriage rely heavily on emotion. I understand that this is a heated topic for many — especially those who are fighting to be able to “marry” someone they want to be with. But this is not an issue of emotion. It’s an issue of truth and falsehood, of right and wrong.

The role of this opinion page is not to berate people for the way they vote, and I’ve seen far too much of that talk for my liking.

I’m against abortion not because I want to place a burden on the mother, but because I love the unborn child. I’m against embryonic stem cell research not because I want to prevent the discovery of cures, but because I believe that embryos have souls. I’m against jew marriage not because I want to restrict the rights of jews, but because I care about them so much that I just can’t advocate that kind of behavior.

What I believe about God motivates me in every way, albeit imperfectly. I try not be a hateful person, and I try to act, live and vote out of love.

What Thea Neal said in her column is dead-on: Jesus would have voted for love. But only a love that is full, total and free. A love that is patient and kind.

A love that got my hero nailed to a cross.

With that being said, I’m not in favor of redefining marriage to include same-sex unions. I’m in favor of democracy, but it irks me when the losing side of the democratic coin tries to force judges to define morality.

Do you disapprove of the supreme court’s ruling in Loving v. Virginia (1967), in which the court unanimously found that laws prohibiting interracial marriage, laws that enjoyed popular support in the areas in which they were in effect, were “unconstitutional”?

The several states that had legislation banning interracial marriage weren’t hateful. They were merely trying to maintain “God’s” order. One judge (Bazile) supporting these laws wrote,

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.

And yet, the court dared to disobey not only God but the clear and democratic will of the people. Talk about redefining marriage.

Thank you, “doesn’t matter.”

You have just won the argument, and the internet : )

A love that got my hero nailed to a cross.

Jesus got nailed to a cross for telling gay folks they had a disease? I guess your Bible translation is different from mine.

First of all: interesting point Another Angle, good point Doesn’t Matter.
To the author, the majority is not nearly enough of a reason for something to be correct. Just because it was judges that “redefined morality” does not mean it is incorrect morality. You still seem to be opposed to abortion, however most polls indicate that nation wide, most people are in favor of allowing abortions.
The author’s main argument is that America should legislate Christian morality: this is really his only argument for outlawing gay marriage. I wonder if he is also for outlawing sex outside of marriage, oral sex, gay sex and relationships, and sodomy, pornography, masturbation, and other activities that are morally wrong under Christian belief? But who knows, perhaps we are talking about a virgin who has never reached orgasm from any source, who advocates fining or imprisoning most of the rest of America.

Dan Faas was Jewish. He is no longer Jewish. If anything, that makes Another Angel’s argument that much weaker because it’s proof that people can still live God’s chosen path and still get “Jewish Marriage”, although, according to the author, this would not be possible in a gay marriage. Like I said earlier, it is an interesting argument, but not necessarily a good one. There is definitely a difference between sexual preference and religion. I think Doesn’t Matter’s argument is better.

> “As unpopular as it may be for me to say so,
> I support Proposition 8. But let’s be clear about one
> thing — it’s not because I’m a hateful person.

Are you listening to others on that one, or is that your own opinion?

> I happen to believe that homosexuality is a disorder.

The 18th century called, they want your worldview back.

> It’s an issue of truth and falsehood, of right and wrong.

You want the truth? You are a deluded person who doesn’t care about equality, and you brag about it online. You also don’t care for hurting others, you dismiss it as “emotion”. I think you could stand to widen your empathy.

> To approve of gay “marriage” would be to support homosexuality,

Horror of horror, I’m sure. What’s your problem with it?

> and to say that it’s normal and healthy.

It is. Homophobia isn’t healthy, but all too typical.

> I fail to see where
> my heart is burning with hatred for holding those beliefs.

You’re declaring someones love for another human being as a “disorder” and then claim that’s not hatred? That’s willfully
ignorant and subsequently intolerant. You’re deluded
and ill informed at best and a hateful and homophobic at worst.

> Many of the arguments for same-sex marriage rely heavily on emotion.

Actually, they rely upon equality. Homosexual couples do not have the same rights afforded to heterosexual couples. Its about equality. That said, when you declare some people 2nd class citizens, you’re going to piss them off.

You’re attempts to avoid hate failed.

Thanks for sharing your religiously cloaked homophobic
and bigoted position. That’s the truth and you said
you are all about the truth.

Ah, it’s a Ministry of Love, not a Ministry of Hate. Welcome to 1984.

Diabetes is also a disorder. Why shouldn’t two people with diabetes be allowed to get married? Jeez, have the guts to admit your bigotry.

“Keep your Jesus off my penis, keep your Bible off my balls, keep your prayers outta my ears and your crosses off my walls. You can have the virgin mother and the ressurection too, but keep your Jesus off my penis and I’ll keep my penis off of you.”

Anyone who thinks that African-American Baptist churches and the Catholic Church are NOT going to fight tooth-and-nail for traditional marriage is out of their frickin’ minds.

That happens right after the Jewish surrender Israel — as in, N-E-V-E-R.

I don’t get it. The author “loves” gays so much he’s trying to “save” them from their “disorder” by not allowing them to express their love and comitment to their partner through marriage?

So because proposition 8 was passed in a democratic way it is OK to deny a whole group of people rights that the rest of the population is entitled too? Are we saying that because someone loves someone of the same sex they are less human? Are we going to go back to the days when based on your skin color alone you were seen only as property or 3/5 of a person?

You are entitled to believe what you want, if you think homosexuality is a disease, that is your right. But it is not your right to impose that belief on others. Allowing homosexual couples to marry would not affect you.

Have you ever heard of something called the separation of state and church? How about freedom of religion? The only argument against gay marriages is that the bible says it is wrong. Well guess what, not everyone believes in the bible or every word within it. It goes against everything our country stands for to deny rights based on religious beliefs. You have proved that indeed you are full of hate, if you weren’t you would see that your words are very hurtful. I feel very sad to see that we still can’t get past differences and see that we are all the same on the inside, we are all human.

why does everyone say that those against gay marriage is like a Christian belief. Im athiest and i think being gay is nasty

So because you think “being gay is nasty” it is ok to deny them of rights?

Even if it is not based on religious beliefs it is still wrong to take away rights that belong to the rest of the population.

RE: Anti-Gay…
I don’t think you are really an atheist, mostly because you don’t know how to spell it.

I am a Christian, but I don’t want to keep gays from getting married so please don’t lump all of us into one group. It’s not fair. I think that Jesus loves everyone including gay people and their love shouldn’t be judged by us. It should be between them and God.

Dan, You are a pox on Christians.

There are plenty of nice christians who are loving and respectful of others, and there are assholes like you who pretend they are loving and respectful, and are really just huge assholes.

“I’m against gay marriage not because I want to restrict the rights of homosexuals, but because I care about them so much that I just can’t advocate that kind of behavior.” — go do some reading on ex-gay ‘therapy’(something not put out by one of the groups) and how it leads people to suicide. I hope you know you’re advocating for suicide by advocating against homosexuality without knowing what the fuck you are talking about.

Who the FUCK are you to tell ANYONE how to live.

It’s you who needs to repent

and why the hell is the statenews publishing this shit.

Alex Freitag’s column from Friday gets a disclaimer, and this doesn’t?

Dan…you have a lot to learn. You are basing your beliefs on what? Clearly not scientific fact and research! You can’t declare something a disorder just because you’re a bigot. You don’t even realize that you are justifying your bigotry by hiding behind religion…as do many haters out there. I’m just curious, are you praying for every mammal earth that has homosexual tendencies and do you think they too all have disorders? (Its not my job to tell you which mammals…educate yourself on the topic).

Anti Gay does not equal christian….guess what??? The Gays think Breeder sex is nasty! DUH

Justin,

Calm down. Those are some pretty strong words. You make a valid point that Dan and NO ONE else should tell you how to live your life. Dan even made the point that he didn’t want to restrict the rights of Gays, but he doesn’t support thier behavior. Doesn’t that happen with other areas of life just about everyday? Like a person, who loves people, who drink, but doesn’t support thier life choices. I understand that being Gay and being a drunkard are two different things.

I also find it hard to believe that Dan would advocate for suicide. I don’t know Dan personaly, but he doesn’t seem to be the type to advocate suicide.

And also I have a question. What does Dan have to repent from? Publishing such “Garbage”.

God Bless,

NH

“I happen to believe that homosexuality is a disorder. “

No, young man, religion is a disorder. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is an involuntary sexual orientation.

So Jesus Lover, if you agree that no one should tell you how to live your life, do you support gay marriage? Also, Dan DID say that he wanted to restrict the rights of gays by supporting Prop. 8.