http://www.statenews.com I cannot believe the State News editorial board took a stance saying that the elimination of the Michigan Promise Scholarship is “necessary” (SN 6/24). en-us Gryphon 2.2.3b-tsn (woodward)/Foundry5 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:29:53 -0400 webmaster@statenews.com http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41265 Yes, Call your legislators! Demand that people paying taxes make it easier for you to attend college. Find me where in the state/federal constitution it enumerates that the scholarship to college is granted. President of College Democrats….. no wonder he wants someone else to foot the bill… Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:57:53 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41265 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41270 “Find me where in the state/federal constitution it enumerates that the scholarship to college is granted.” Yeah, because the only laws we have in this country are contained in the federal & state constitutions…give me a break. I tend to be sympathetic with the state govt. though. People love to b!tch about the budget deficit and too much spending, but the minute anything is cut, people complain (first the prison cut-backs, now scholarships). Look those cuts got to come from somewhere, and like it or not, its the jobs of those on Cap Hill in Lansing to decide where to make them. Here’s to hoping the auto industy finds new life by becoming a global leader in new auto-technology; michigan revives its manufacturing base with wind & solar manufacturing, and we become a world leader in the health sciences. Believe it or not, there is leadership (private & public, often working together) positioning our great state to do just that. Once that happens, there will be much more funding for higher education, and maybe even some federal measures can be taken to ensure every high school graduate has access to affordable higher education. Till then, we need to bite the bullet and get through these tough times together Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:22:52 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41270 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41276 I WILL TELL YOU WHERE WE GET THE MONEY FOR STATE GOVERNMENT: Gov. Granholm should declare emergency powers and abolish the federal income withholding tax. Instead, we shall take half of the proceeds to remain within the state. If Obama’s administration is going to fund the entire federal government by selling Treasury securities to China and Japan, I say to hell with them, no more federal income taxes. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:36:38 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41276 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41277 The following is necessary to secure the blessings of liberty: 1.) Secession from the United States on the grounds that they have broken contract through unconstitutional actions 2.) State-ize the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago – Detroit branch office and print constitutional, non-inflating currency in Michigan. 3.) Create a two-tier credit system, infrastructure and utilities and energy get their own system of credit with long term statutory low interest rates. 4.) Sky high tariffs on non-U.S. products to internalize and repair the Michigan economy. The federal government’s sole purpose in the 19th century was balancing tariff duties for economic protectionism. 5.) State agency for widespread publication of health care prices in order to actuate the dynamics of capitalism and necessarily drive down costs of routine services and medical schools. 6.) The abolition of all political parties, as they have amply demonstrated to shut down state governments in California, New York, and Michigan in 2007. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:43:49 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41277 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41285 I agree, its counter intuitive to cut education aid when tuition is rising at an unprecedented rate and ‘the knowledge economy’ is repeatedly said to be our future. On the other hand, Michigan doesn’t produce nearly enough jobs to actually keep college graduates, not to mention graduate level students to stay in Michigan after they finish college, so in theory, why subsidize the education of someone who will use it in another state anyway. A final note – when education ceases to be accessible to everyone except the wealthy (i.e. middle class can’t educate themselves), democracy and self government slowly die and actually decrease liberty for everyone. Three virtually unrelated comments, I know – Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:52:58 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41285 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41292 Yeah, just keep cutting and milking education in Michigan. Maybe someday you’ll end up like Florida where the public education is ranked 48th out of 50 states. People need to stop looking at education as a selfish endeavour bettering individuals and more as an investment to the well-being of the country and economy as a whole. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:00:03 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41292 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41300 Eddie, That comment might hold water if the government monopoly on education were producing decent results. Know what the average ACT score in Michigan was last year? Just over 18. Barely better than 50 percent. Is that really an “investment to the well-being of the country and economy as a whole?” I think not. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:59:29 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41300 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41301 Since the State News seems to think getting rid of our scholarships isnt a big deal, we all need to go to their building and request our student State News tax back. This isnt something i’m making up. You ARE allowed to do this and it only takes 5 minutes. While its not going to replace what we’re losing, its a start. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:00:29 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41301 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41313 ..that the Editorial Board is most certaintly out of touch with the average Michiganian! Shame on them!!! I couldn’t agree more with your statement that “We cannot continue to have a “learning tax” on education that damns our children out of attending college. It is sickening to me that our children in this state continually have to put up with tuition increases, and now scholarship cuts to attend college and better themselves through education.” Your letter was perfectly written! Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:45:27 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41313 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41324 I didn’t know MSU offered a bachelor’s degree in “welfare queen.” Gimme, gimme, gimme. I want, I want, I want. To hell with the taxpayers actually footing the bill who are paying this welfare entitlement, right? Guess it wouldn’t occur to anyone to ask why the costs keep going up, just take the easy way out and stomp your feet and hold your breath as you demand to be given something that is NOT yours and you HAVE NOT earned. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:44:58 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41324 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41336 If you are interested in helping with the MSU College Democrats on our campaign to hold the State News accountable, please feel free to e-mail me at president@msudems.org. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:10:01 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41336 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41337 Oh brother. A cog in the partisan political machinery that wants to hold someone else “accountable.” Funniest thing I’ve read all day. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:16:50 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41337 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41339 Mitchell, Please demand the state news offers a retraction or else on behalf of students use your role as President to raise awareness of this issue AND please have the first awareness event be organizing students to get their State News taxes back. Perhaps then the State News will realize that taking away critical funding isnt “insignificant”. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:21:04 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41339 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41356 Good call, Todd. Nothing says welfare queen like a high school student with good grades looking for help paying for college. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:48:58 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41356 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41364 Mitchell, What are you going to hold the SN accountable for?? Printing their opinion? Get a grip, some one doesn’t have the same opinion as you and you fly of the handle. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:45:03 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41364 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41378 This is ridiculous. This is a teachable moment; one can’t rely on the government for anything, I spent a year in Iraq, actually earning my tuition assistance, yet to see it be omitted from the budget. Get over it, the state owes you nothing, so get over it. I actually served time for my assistance, but they have eliminated it. Welcome to the Granholm adminstration, you morons. Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:30:53 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41378 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41382 Dave, Thank you for your service to our country. I doubt you get much thanks around here. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:06:28 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41382 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41384 El-oh-el, Tim. Those damn high-performing, high-potential high school students and their desire for a little help to alleviate the astronomical rise in college tuition that is accompanied by more than a decade of stagnant wages and the ever-increasing gap between the haves and have-nots — what a bunch of welfare queens looking for a handout! Damn hippies! On a serious note, I was able to attend college and graduate school with some “handouts” like scholarships and grants including the Michigan Promise, working full-time or nearly full-time the entire time, and Uncle Sam’s loans. For undergrad, the Stafford loans are capped at ridiculously small amounts — like $5,000 to pay for room and board of your freshman year of college. That doesn’t quite do the trick when it costs double that to go to a half-decent university. I was barely able to pay for college by making up the difference with scholarships and money from my crappy retail job that made me want to dropkick a baby. Private loans aren’t even an option if you’re smart and don’t want to pay ridiculous interest rates. Now for grad school, Uncle Same will loan you pretty much whatever you want. I feel bad for these kids. The price of college is getting absurd and there’s no help for kids whose parents aren’t rich or aren’t dirt poor. Going $40k in debt for a $25k job that a trained monkey could do doesn’t really sound worth it to me. Unfortunately, that’s what awaits many college grads. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:18:59 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41384 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41388 Amen DAVE The gov’t doesn’t “owe” anyone a darn thing. People forget that this money has to come from somewhere. Well Jenny, I’m blown away!!! Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:53:12 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41388 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41393 America, Yes, the price of college is getting absurd. Why not focus on that instead of whining that we should continue to steal money from people who earn it and give it to kids for college? Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:29:22 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41393 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41401 “Gimme, gimme, gimme. I want, I want, I want. To hell with the taxpayers actually footing the bill who are paying this welfare entitlement, right?” The scholarships are actually the people of Michigan working as a collective to encourage the brightest and best students to stay in-state for college and, hopefully, produce the technologies that get Michigan running again. Michigan needs to evolve to stay competitive in the world economy. Who will do that? College grads. Who will best succeed? Those students who show promise in pre-college coursework. Does it not make sense to invest in those students who may one day change the face of the Michigan economy? Personally, I would rather pay a thousand dollars to put a kid through school and to keep a crackhead incarcerated. The crackheads will eventually die off. The smart kid pursuing a degree in biomedical engineering may one day save my life. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:02:41 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41401 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41402 Correction: the sentence should read: “Personally, I would rather pay a thousand dollars to put a kid through school than to keep a crackhead incarcerated. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:03:56 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41402 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41408 Zeke, The people of Michigan? Hmmm, I don’t remember voting on any such program. Do you? Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:57:08 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41408 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41410 Zeke, maybe that biomedical engineer will develope a new virus that kills you. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:36:58 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41410 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41411 Geez, Todd. I don’t recall voting on a program to build roads or rebuild roads over in Grand Rapids. I don’t use them so what do I care if they aren’t built or repaired. Of course we all did get to vote for our governor, mayor, representatives etc. so in a way we did vote for these programs. The notion that anything done without a direct vote from the people is silly. The funny thing is that you paint people as selfish for “expecting” scholarships, but appear to oppose any program that doesn’t directly benefit you. Of course there is the fact that nobody expects or demands these things. I received numerous scholarships through my academic career, I had no expectation or sense of entitlement to them and if I had not gotten them I probably would have taken a different educational route. The rationale behind providing scholarships has been outlined by many posters, so I won’t lay it out for you again. It’s not a matter of expectations, it’s a matter of public policy. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:51:19 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41411 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41420 Tim, Yes, I know that notion is silly. That’s why I used that example to point out Zeke’s absurdity. Just because something is “public policy” doesn’t make it OK. It is unacceptable in any circumstance to take money from one person who has earned it and give it to someone else who has not earned it. President James Madison put it best when he vetoed one of the earliest bills seeking to do just that: “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” That goes for everything from these scholarships all the way up to corporate bailouts. It’s unfortunate that so many people support the un-Constitutional behavior of our government today. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:50:47 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41420 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41428 How so you guys manage to get into this stuff? Characters real characters, I must say. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:14:27 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41428 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41442 “The people of Michigan? Hmmm, I don’t remember voting on any such program. Do you?” Yes, I do. It was Election Day, when I voted for a State Rep who campaigned on a college education platform and later voted to support it. You know, Election Day? When you were probably at a pub somewhere cursing the government instead of selecting it? “It is unacceptable in any circumstance to take money from one person who has earned it and give it to someone else who has not earned it.” Hahaha. Except when the legislature does it according to the laws of the State of Michigan and the United States. By law, the state collects taxes, and by law, they vote how to spend it. And I disagree that good students have not earned it: good grades, hard work, studying, and dedication to their coursework. “Zeke, maybe that biomedical engineer will develope a new virus that kills you.” Hey, how’s that 9/11 conspiracy book coming? You prove that it was the government flying those planes by remote yet? Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:33:42 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41442 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41485 They should write an Editorial on being board, it would liven things up a bit. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:38:09 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41485 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41504 While I agree that they might be as good at critical thinking when it comes to these editorials as a 2 by 4, I think you meant bored not board. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:46:06 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41504 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41506 Once again, I learned something new! I knew it, but forgot it. Probably because I was bored. You are so cute and kind to of helped me with my grammar. How can one person be so darn smart? Much smarter than me, much smarter than alot of people. Brillant mind, and it is suprising to me, that you are also perfect with grammar, an excellent writer, funny, romantic, and you have gotten even kinder. Special that is you special and very cute! Love the picture. Thank you for your gift to me. Very Kind. I promise to keep my word from the things I wrote and sincerely seek, God’s word and pray and be open. I hope to be a better person in the long run. You have already done wonders for me. I would never want to hurt you. Be true to yourself and write…write…write…because it is the right thing for you.I hope you don’t mind but I have to say God Bless You, you have directed me back to where I need to be. You will always be a part of me, how could you not? The change in me will be something better and I have you to thank, so Thank you, dear friend. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:20:53 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41506 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41510 You belong here, your writing is you. Beautiful writer, beautiful you. I know that it is time for some new stories though. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:54:58 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41510 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41514 Zeke, Oh, so because the government does it, it must be OK. Fascinating worldview. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:17:01 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41514 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41516 Is that person who posted under “Thank You” some type of spam? It sounds like English isn’t their first language. I see a similar style of writing that sounds like the same person on most of the comment sections. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:56:27 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41516 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41518 Lerd knows that the answer is yes. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:28:59 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41518 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41521 Doesn’t sound like they know their English,then maybe they should go back to school. Maybe they aren’t as good with words as other people who write here. Maybe they should quit getting their a** kicked, if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean?! How can some people be so young and so smart, I will never figure that one out. Hey an oldie but a goodie, but never good enough! Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:58:30 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41521 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41528 Todd- That’s pretty obviously not what Zeke’s argument was. His point is that you did vote for these scholarships when you voted for your state representative and senator. As you are aware, we have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. It means we elect individuals to represent us in the government and those people then vote for us. We don’t have a direct democratic vote for every bit of governmental spending or for every governmental program. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything the government does or that everything the government does is right. It just means that your argument that we didn’t specifically vote for these scholarships is silly and fails to account for our system of government. The government quite clearly has the power to pass laws providing for scholarships. If you disagree than you should challenge the constitutionality of the scholarships. If you think the government shouldn’t have that power, you should try and ammend the state constitution. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:01:24 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41528 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41537 Tim, So in that case, no one should be complaining that the legislature voted to cut the scholarships, either. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:41:16 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41537 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41545 Life is too interesting to be bored here. What great blogs, what a great read. Sometimes people’s hormones’s get a little out of wack, then they return to normal..well normal is back. Cranky earlier..sorry. Lots to read and view when I get home…looking forward to a diet coke! No oops today! at least I hope not! Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:34:31 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41545 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41567 Todd- I never said you can’t complain when the government implements a policy you disagree with. That would be antithetical to democracy. What I criticized was your position that governmental spending is unjust unless it is approved by a direct vote. Any additional strawmen you want to knock down? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:40:36 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41567 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41569 Tim, That wasn’t my position. I already told you I used that absurd example to refute Zeke’s absurd defense about “the people of Michigan.” Hope I typed that slowly enough for you this time. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:35:04 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41569 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41581 Todd- Clever, what is your position then? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:34:59 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41581 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41584 Tim, That government shouldn’t take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not – no matter how altruistic the reason. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:06:51 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41584 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41586 Todd, Fair enough, looks as if there was some misunderstanding, as is prone to happen, here. Do you also think that doing so is unconstitutional? Anyway, if that is your opinion, you are better off arguing that we shouldn’t pay politicians since they do far less to earn the money than a hard working high school student. Have a good holiday. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:20:21 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41586 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41614 Ahh, good to see Todd is still here whining. “That government shouldn’t take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not – no matter how altruistic the reason.” Are you an MSU student, Todd? If so, I want my money back from you. You see, my tax dollars are used to fund MSU even though I do not attend school there any more. By your standards, you are taking my money without earning it. Not an MSU student? Then how about civil services? Even had the need for police assistance? How about high school education? Both of those are funded with my tax dollars as well. You clearly have not earned them per my perspective, so you should not accept them any more and should immediately call for their end. Long story short: the voters of Michigan, via constutitional extension through elected officals, disagree with your cold and unproductive notion that people are worth supporting with their money. If you truly believe otherwise, get off your gluteus and change the law. Good day. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:40:39 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41614 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41615 Correction: “disagree with your cold and unproductive notion that people are not worth supporting with their money.” Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:42:08 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41615 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41649 Do libertarians really not want a government at all? Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:38:42 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41649 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41651 Drum ROLL please……NO!!!!!!!!!! Coz they know EVERYTHING! Or at least they THINK THEY DO!?!!! BOO HOO ON YOU. Guess who my dear? Do you always have to be right? Are you the most pig headed person on the planet? Okay you are brillant, talented, funny etc. , but you are also a real pain in the a**! Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:53:39 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41651 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41717 I have since found out that I am the wrong party here. I am sorry for having written the above post. When someone shows you that they have a great heart and great intentions, then that makes them right afterall! Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:29:53 -0400 http://www.statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/41717