Struggling for same-sex equality
By Brittany Shammas (Last updated: 06/24/09 12:20am)Marriage is something urban planning graduate student Matt Earls says he’s always dreamed about. But for Earls and his boyfriend, public policy graduate student Paul Holland, marriage remains a dream in Michigan, where a 2004 amendment to the state constitution banned same-sex marriage.
“I guess I just don’t know why my same-sex preference is stopping me,” Earls said. “There’s just something about marriage that seems a lot more concrete than, ‘I’m in a relationship.’ I think it adds more stability.”
Holland and Earls, who have been dating for more than a year, are one couple out of thousands in Michigan hoping for a change to current restrictions on same-sex marriage. The couple said they are confident Michigan is headed toward equality.
History
Michigan’s 2004 vote to approve Proposal 2 created an amendment to the state’s constitution that defined marriage as between one man and one woman, making same-sex marriage illegal within the state.
The proposal was designed to protect families as the foundation of society, said Marlene Elwell, who helped draft it as director of Citizens for the Protection of Marriage. The basic unit of a family, which is the strength of a nation, has always been a man, a woman and their children, she said.
“A marriage is between only one man and one woman,” she said. “It doesn’t mean you have four women together and that defines a family. It’s been like that forever. It’s just that in recent years, people want to change that.”
Holland said although he understands the position of a person who doesn’t want to see a religious term used to define something against his or her beliefs, he doesn’t think it is fair for marriage to be tied to civil statute. The benefits that come with marriage should be available for everyone, regardless of their sexuality, he said.
“Since the word marriage is entwined in civil law, then civilly, everyone’s entitled to marriage,” he said.
Three years after the proposal was approved, MSU, which began offering domestic-partnership benefits to same-sex couples in 1997, was forced to change its policy in 2007, MSU Trustee Colleen McNamara said.
The former policy was illegal under the amendment to the constitution, she said. McNamara said MSU’s current policy, which now complies with state law, still has the effect of providing benefits to same-sex couples employed by the university.
Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association of Michigan, which filed a suit against MSU for the same-sex benefits it offered, said offering benefits to same-sex couples equates their relationship with marriage, which is unconstitutional.
“The only thing states can recognize as a marriage is the union of one man and woman,” he said. “(That union) is a role-model relationship for each successive generation of children.”
Since Proposal 2’s approval, all Michigan legislation promoting benefits for gay people has occurred at the county and township level, said Julie Nemcek, co-director of Michigan Equality. Twenty percent of the state’s population now resides in areas where ordinances prohibit housing and employment discrimination on the basis of sexuality, she said. Rep. Pam Byrnes, D-Lyndon Township, recently announced plans to introduce legislation to overturn the ban on same-sex marriage in Michigan. Byrnes could not be reached for comment.
Changes
The greatest progress made toward same-sex benefits in Michigan and in the nation as a whole are changes in the prevailing attitude toward gays, Nemcek said. The public has developed a greater understanding of gay people and relationships, she said.
Twenty years ago, Holland said some people still used the word “degenerate” to describe a gay person. Now, he said, the word is recognized as inappropriate. Progress toward equality is under way, even though it is moving slowly, Holland said.
“Our country, even through hiccups and starts, has become more equal over time,” he said. “In the next 10 years, I’m pretty confident gay marriage will be in Michigan. I think we’re headed in that direction.”
MSU social science professor Stephanie Nawyn said as more gay individuals feel comfortable coming out, the public grows more understanding of the importance of gay rights, she said.
“More people now know they have friends, they have family members who are gay and lesbians and what that’s done is made people see they aren’t crazy or sex-crazed, they’re people that they know, they’re people they love,” she said.
“That has done a tremendous amount to change people’s attitudes toward gay marriage.”
Research now indicates most Americans think gay couples should be allowed to visit each other in the hospital and inherit each other’s estates, and more than half support some form of same-sex marriage, Nawyn said.
Nationwide
In the past 10 years, six states have legalized same-sex marriage and three have created provisions for partnerships, said Michael Craw, an MSU professor in James Madison College. Beginning with Hawaii in 1993, the movement to extend marriage to same-sex couples has taken off in recent years, he said.
Iowa was the most recent state to legalize gay marriage in April, joining Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts and Connecticut, he said.
In the long run, the outlook is positive for same-sex marriage, as exposure to and acceptance of gay men and women has expanded nationwide, Craw said. Nawyn said people who have friends or family members who are gay are more likely to be open to same-sex marriage, using former Vice President Dick Cheney as an example. Cheney, whose daughter is a lesbian, now supports same-sex marriage, she said.
“These are people who sit at your dinner table,” she said. “As it has become more acceptable, people become more open to allowing them the same rights — and marriage is just one of those.”
But the issue will play out at the level of each individual state, Craw said.
In Michigan, if the issue of same-sex marriage could return to the ballot, Elwell said she would be prepared to fight again to keep marriage between a man and woman.
Holland said although he doesn’t think Michigan will legalize same-sex marriage by the time of the next election cycle, it could be possible within six years. He and Earls have discussed marriage, and would be disappointed to have to leave the state if they decided to get married before the state makes marriage legal.
“Both of us were born and raised here, we’ve gone to school here,” Holland said. “We both have pride in our state and we love our state. It’s not only inconvenient, but it’s nothing that weighs us down. We just wish it wasn’t that way … It’s something you hope for.”
Originally Published: 06/23/09 11:23pm
Tak
06/24/09 4:25amThere has been a massive generational shift on this issue. People over 30 are divided on the issue of same sex marriage, but most people under 30 really don’t see what the big deal is. This trend will follow in the next generation, and so on.
In other words, before too long, resistance to gay marriage will quite literally die off.
Sometimes justice comes with the sword, sometimes the scythe.
John
06/24/09 8:17amFantastic article, Brittany Shammas. This is just another reason why the people of Michigan need to dust off, step up and work hard to make the state an accepting and progressive place to live.
Michigan Law
06/24/09 8:50am§ 28.570 (MCL §750.338) Gross indecency between male persons; attempts; penalty; commission by sexually delinquent person; penalty.
Sec.338.
Any male person who, in public or private, commits or is a party to the commission of or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any male person of any act of gross indecency with another male person shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or if such person was at the time of the said offense a sexually delinquent person, may be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for an indeterminate term, the minimum of which shall be 1 day and the maximum of which shall be life.
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Matt
06/24/09 9:27amHey Michigan Law,
The Michigan Sodomy Law was declared unconstitutional in 1990 in the case of Michigan Organization for Human Rights v. Kelley. Furthermore all anti-homosexual sodomy laws were declared unconstitutional in the US Supreme Court ruling Lawrence v. Texas (2003). Your repeating an old law is like quoting the Michigan Anti-Miscegenation Law, a law which forbade interracial marriages, which has since been repealed. What is the merit of your post to this discussion?
Kham
06/24/09 10:05amMarriage is NOTHING MORE than a legal contract between two people and the state. I can’t see the opposition’s side to this. Its just a contract, nothing more. As far as I know, gays are not demanding to be married in YOUR church. They are just demanding equal treatment as a tax payer. Thats fine by me.
shadow_man
06/24/09 11:13amFor those of you claiming homosexuality is a “lifestyle”, that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice.
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shadow_man
06/24/09 11:15amHomosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.
http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. ...http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
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Chelsea
06/24/09 11:44amIn reply to shadow_man. You are wrong. The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality. You can twist and make excuses all you want, but it literally states it as a sin.
A sin. Just a sin. Just like any other sin. Something that needs to be confessed and worked on and eventually stopped. Just like I need to stop swearing or putting other things before God or being mean to my sister.
God loves everyone.
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Marie
06/24/09 11:56amexcellent post Chelsea
Todd
06/24/09 12:05pmSo if homosexuality is not a choice, then that must make it a genetic defect, right? That makes sense, since the ultimate biological goal of sexual relations is to procreate the species.
Matthew
06/24/09 12:31pmWhat doesn’t the Bible condemn? Sure there is murder, adultery, rape and incest, but who are we, mere mortals, to ignore all the precepts of the Divine Creator? Have you ever worn clothing made from two types of material? Have you ever made a bet? How about ordered your steak rare or undercooked? I’m sure you all keep Kosher right?
Sure Christians like to say, they have entered into a New Covenant with God and that all the Old Testament commands (except the ones they conveniently choose are valid). However, this argument is false.
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Dave
06/24/09 12:40pmBen,
I know it is easy to pull the knee-jerk reaction when told you are no longer allowed to do something, but lets take a moment to honestly look at how you are framing “equality”. Under the current status quo, only heterosexual couples are allow access to the legal benefits of marriage; Homosexual couples are being actively denied access to those same rights. Allowing equal access to such benefits does absolute nothing to restrict the ones you yourself already have the ability to enjoy, which is the basic idea of equality in the first place.
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Steven Leong
06/24/09 1:03pmGod created Gay! It’s definitely not a choice! Anyone who knows a Gay person knows this “truth”! The question many Christians should be asking is “Why did God create Gays?”. THE WORLD IS OVERPOPULATED WITH LIMITED FOOD AND NATURAL RESOURCES…HETEROSEXUALS ARE ABANDONING CHILDREN FOR WHAT EVER REASONS …Maybe God came up with an ANSWER!
Instead of working with God, so many churches are pouring instead, OBSCENE AMOUNTS OF MONEY into trying to stop two people created differently form themselves from “tying the knot”…money which could help the poor.
I believe Christ had a word for this … “HYPOCRITES”! The Goliath Churches who continue to crucify these people created by God will eventually see the light!
WHAT ONE SOWS, SO SHALL THEY REAP!
Steve Leong – Hawaii
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Chelsea
06/24/09 1:24pmSteven Leong: God did not create sin, we did, but just because temptation is present does not mean we cannot overcome it.
You are right, hypocrites and those who judge will reap what they sow. Those who do this are in the wrong and sinning. I apologize for their actions and I am saddened by their lack of love for others. My interpretation of the efforts to stop homosexual marriage is not to interfere or not help the poor, but to help protect and encourage the ways of life that God created. Marriage is not just a contract (Kham), it is a union before God and man and a promise. Marriage was encouraged and sacred and still should be.
Chelsea
06/24/09 1:36pmMatthew: We are not bound to the law. The reason we look back on the laws of the Old Covenant is because they were created to show sin. They were created in context of the times. Jesus meant to keep in mind the commandments and laws, but to not let them rule over you. Not to be ungodly, but also not be legalistic. Jesus himself healed on the Sabbath, which would technically break the law if what you are saying was true, but we are NOT bound by the law, Jesus did not sin and was perfect atonement of the sin of the world.
Matthew
06/24/09 1:54pmChelsea: Again, my complaint is you are picking and choosing laws and commandments from the Bible at your own discretion. How can some laws be created in the context of the time they were written but others be absolute for all ages and all people? Who decides which ones are still valid and by what authority does he/she make this decision?
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about divorce? Is that not the gravest crime against marriage? Does not divorce and remarriage constitute the sin of adultery? (“What God has joined together, let no man put asunder..”)
Kham
06/24/09 2:01pmChelsea Yes is is a contract, and GOD has NOTHING to do with it. Why are you forcing your God on others. Separation between Church and State Chelsea, if you dont have that you only have a different flavor of Islam. Yes sure you believe in God, and Jesus, and thats fine, if you talk to me about is I will tell you why thats stupid. When you push your beliefs upon others, you negate any respect you will get from me.
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Kham
06/24/09 2:05pm(sorry for all those typos, I had to go self edit all the bad words out, and I made a mess of things, again, I apologize)
Paul
06/24/09 2:40pmPlease stop bickering about ancient scriptures that have absolutely nothing at all to do with our civil law…this is not about what you “believe” or how you interpret your scriptures…it is about secular civil law and equality before the state…it is a legal argument and is not a difficult one if those preoccupied with their tribal and fanatical superstitions would embrace even a ounce of incredulity…everyone ought to be governed by the same law, under the same processâ¦this is equality and it is simple…no church is being consulted and religious followers ought to keep their babble and bickering within their churches and let the rest of us adults work to build a more just world for all people while they pine for death and the “kingdom” to come…
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Chelsea
06/24/09 2:50pmI’m really sorry if I have offended anyone. I’m only here to voice my opinion!! I completely understand if you agree and you are welcome to disagree. We all have our views and I don’t want to force mine on anyone, just voice them :-)
Anyway..
Matthew: We do not pick and choose laws. I will not sacrifice an animal to earn forgiveness because Jesus has done that.
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Paul
06/24/09 3:34pm“America was founded upon radical Christian beliefs.” This is patently false Chelsea, I don’t know what they tell you in church, but the American government was founded on radical secular sentiments; a government of civil law enacted by the people, not a government of god administered by the church. I must be mistaken about the Treaty of Tripoli being unanimously ratified in the Senate and Signed by President Adams in 1797 and proclaims that “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” As for “Christians hav[ing] given freedom to all other religions…” I guess I should thank you and all those charitable Christians for giving me my freedoms.
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Kham
06/24/09 3:36pmYour idea of history is jaded. The Founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson (Christianity is the most perverted system that has ever shone on man), James Madison, Benjamin Franklin (Lighthouses are more useful than churches), John Adams (This world would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no region in it) These guys? I dont know you, but usually at this point you folks jump to the” In God we Trust” argument.
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DJJ
06/24/09 3:37pmBest solution: abolish state recognized sanctioned marriages, leave it as private contracts between individuals, get the state out of it. Eliminate special heterosexual marriage insurance benefits. So literally, THIS WHOLE EFFING THING IS ABOUT INSURANCE BENEFITS, because gays certainly aren’t concerned about not living in sin.
Kham
06/24/09 3:42pm“The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason.”
Franklin, Benjamin on Faith
Dave
06/24/09 4:08pmAccess to insurance benefits is certainly a component of the issue, but far from the whole thing. Issues with inheritance, adoption, spousal privilege, and co-ownership of property along with numerous other outstanding issues need to be addressed. The simplest way to go about that from where we currently are is to drop restrictions that marriage can only be for a heterosexual couple and allow homosexual couples to operate within the established social and bureaucratic framework.
To be frank, saying that the whole thing is about insurance (money, essentially) is terribly offensive.
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Henry C
06/24/09 7:13pmLet the religious fanatics do as they please. The cost to the churches will be that they lose all their tax benefits. If the churches choose to discriminate, then they do not receive government funding or tax exemptions. The churches will pay property taxes just like any other business. If the individual denominations choose to reject ‘marriage’ for same sex couples, then so what? At least one part of marriage is the legal (NOT the religious) recognition.
Really?
06/24/09 8:12pmAs a gay man, let me say this to you:
Frankly, I don’t care if you think my lifestyle is a sin. That’s you’re belief and you have every right to have it. However, honor my right to live my life the way that it was fully intended to be lived. No, my sexual orientation is not a choice. I can’t change my being gay just like heterosexuals can’t choose their being stright.
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Todd
06/24/09 8:50pmHenry,
So you want to violate the true meaning of “separation of church and state” (Jefferson’s original point was that the wall must stand to protect church from state, not the other way around) in order to advance your agenda?
Maybe you need to rethink that and step back from your religious intolerance, since you seem a little confused by all this. To get married in a church you have to first have a valid marriage license issued by the state. Beyond that, do you really want to advocate for a world in which public policy is based on people’s personal beliefs?
DJJ
06/24/09 10:18pmFor the record, I don’t think homosexuality is inherently immoral, and I’m not a Christian, and I know there are gay Christians but it isn’t the majority because of the Bible’s numerous tirades against lying with another man. Thus my implied statement that gays don’t want church weddings to prevent living in sin.(I’m a libertarian agnostic, so you can imagine I have few friends)
I really don’t care what homosexuals do, at all.
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Don S
06/25/09 8:17amThe third member of the wedding party is the Marriage Contract. I picture it as an entity that looks at both partners and chuckles.The “contract” can be anything the couple decides and is not defined in a court of law. It is, however the glue that binds and makes the couple think twice about making the relationship casual. Gays need the opportunity, as bad as it is, to have the option of the “contract”. Christianity is a religion for those who need to be bossed around and kept weak by their oppressors.
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erg57
06/25/09 9:10amChelsea,
The 21st century asked me to ask you to join it.
Just waiting for you to recommend bleeding them with leeches.
Why are bible bangers the least Christian of Christians? A head scratcher for sheezy
Kham
06/25/09 10:29amI warned you Chelsea, this is why your church warns you to stay away from the evil internet. You might learn something that is unfiltered via church. You can have your beliefs Chelsea, but if you open your mouth and start to discuss your bronze age desert dogma, people will tell you why thats incredibly stupid. The same would happen to anyone who tries to argue on the point that a fairy tale is fact. You shall receive all the respect due, because none is due. One last thing, you are not my peer, no more than a bronze age person is a modern mans peer.
DJJ
06/25/09 10:54amReligions: hundreds of millions of violent deaths and counting.
Did I offend someone when I said even heterosexual marriage is a sham, it has no sanctity? I’ll reiterate, there is nothing inherently immoral about homosexuality, I really don’t care. A show of hands, how many gays desire church weddings?
The best way to achieve equality is to eliminate heterosexual benefits over homosexual partnerships, because the special benefits are really indefensible, and will show the singular financial mindedness of the bible thumpers and perhaps a few homosexual partners at that.
Todd
06/25/09 10:55amIsn’t it wonderful that all these people who are so in favor of tolerance when it comes to gay marriage can also show the maturity and self-discernment to extend that same tolerance to those – such as Chelsea – with whom they disagree? [/sarcasm off]
Hope
06/25/09 11:11amThank you Todd. I have been wondering to myself why is it that I have found only women taking the time to try to convey the genuine faith of Christianity, is it the nuturing party of who we are, I really wonder… Now I hope to share my thought with you: To all you Atheists, please take a listen . I have already been through the ringer with you myself once before. So I hope you will just take a listen here, because the love that is in me is the love of Christ.
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Kham
06/25/09 11:38amCRAZY People alert! You can take your Satan, and your Jesus and keep them, I anit buying it. “ Ask me anything I speak from the heart.” How about you learn to speak from the head, there’s more nerve endings there. Then learn to edit yourself abit so you dont run on like a person with mental disorder.
Dear Todd, I know you have a valid point, that I am not displaying tolerance. You are correct, I am doing so because there beliefs are hindering a group of peoples right for a pursuit of happiness. I will display tolerance when its not acting harmful to others.
Hope to Kham
06/25/09 11:51amGee Kham I wouldn’t expect anything less from you, not suprised. The thing that I do wonder is WHY are so many Atheists sooo angry, or at least they appaer to be. Am I correct on this. I am not trying to cahrge you up, just trying to get an anwer here. You spout of mean and demeaning comments to a person, attacking their character, WHY? I wouldn’t and couldn’t, so what is the difference here between US? I really wonder, could you tell me…I think I already know. PS. I don’t want to make you angry, I do want to get you to think. I want you to know what I know, I want you to have real peace!
cahrge=change
06/25/09 11:54amWow how did I do that one? Writting fast I suppose Of is suppose to be out. I hate this debate…but things need to be said, coz people care.
Oh by the way...
06/25/09 11:57amMore nerve ending in the head is fuuny! Sorry my grammar, still needs work, oh well.
fuuny=funny
06/25/09 12:00pmBut I am sure you can figure that out! Come on lighten up!
Why is it that Atheists have a good sense of homor?
06/25/09 12:08pmI mean where does it come from? Does it compensate for the negativity? Kinda a unique mix, I must say. But a I have found it to be very real. It is often a sarcastic humor. But it can be the most delightful sense of humor too, when God isn’t brought into the equation. Isn’t it something that those that believe in God truely believe and those that don’t, truely don’t…just a crazy thought that I would put to use. But no matter what HE is REAL, HE LOVES YOU, end of story, very simple, very true. I hope one day you will know all that has been atated here is because people that believe are people who really do care. Some more deeply than others, some in ways they shouldn’t but do.
Thanks Kham you riled me up and now my spelling stinks...
06/25/09 12:13pmatated=stated. I need to cool off too. This is definetly a emotional topic. One I never argued before, until recently. I have spoken my peace and my sincere convictions, done end of story. Best wishes are sent to everyone, believer or not. Guess what no typo’s, I proof read…YA! Finally!!!
Todd
06/25/09 12:34pmKham,
Oh, OK, so your intolerance is acceptable because you believe passionately in your cause, so that must make it OK. Thank you, Capt. Hypocrisy.
To Todd From Hope
06/25/09 12:54pmThank you.
Chelsea
06/25/09 1:15pmTodd – Thank you. I think tolerance is very important!!
Hope – I agree with you, but provoking people and making assumptions isn’t our goal.
I’m not taking myself too seriously. When the conversation changes from voicing opinions to being upset, calling names, and belittling, I stop. My saying anything further is not going to do anything but fuel the fire. I’ve said my peace! Think what you may, you are entitled, as am I.
:-)
To Chelsea
06/25/09 1:26pmWow you didn’t get what I meant at all, too bad I am too tired out to explain. But I never called anyone names I hope that you are stating this about me, I am far from that. But I do want to point one thing out to you…Your stance on abortion is weak, you believe in the sanctity of life or you don’t, I do. I protect ALL human life, simply because I LOVE my fellow man, do you?
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God help me!
06/25/09 1:31pmspeiinh-spelling. I need to go cool off, I am really ticked! I can take what an athesist dishes out, but a Christian, well as I already stated, not everyone is what they claim to be!
One last comment
06/25/09 1:42pmAt least I am the real deal, no BS about me. I simply care…maybe that is my problem. I bet it is. But I will lift up my sufferings for the good of others. Man if you want to be crucified, blog here. No wonder I am in the pit of hell right now, it’s those I find hypocritical my self that have helped me run away. But GOD still calls me. I learned one very good thing today, I am going to put my trust in God no in man, coz…false assumptions and are hell to the soul.
Chelsea
06/25/09 2:06pmIf it is Hope who is writing that I was not accusing you of anything, but you were getting defensive. I’m sorry. I probably shouldn’t have said that. Others were saying some things about me. Including:
“bronze age person is a modern mans peer”
“The 21st century asked me to ask you to join it.
“Just waiting for you to recommend bleeding them with leeches.
Why are bible bangers the least Christian of Christians? A head scratcher for sheezy”
“Your idea of history is jaded.”
That’s fine. That’s what you think, but it doesn’t do anything for me, so I’m not replying to those things, is what my post was intended to say.
Kham
06/25/09 2:21pmTodd, As I stated, this is about Beliefs vs Rights. DO I have to cut and paste the bill of rights here? All Men are equal ect ect. Do you have the patriotism, the honor, the strength of character to stand behind you own nation’s constitution. If you vote against Gay marriage you are a bad person. End of story, you believe you have the right to impede another citizens pursuit of happiness. And why are Atheists angry?
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Kham
06/25/09 2:40pmby the way, I am happily and faithfully married (to a woman) with one kid, dog, two cats, house payment, car payment. I own a small business here in east lansing. I know peace, I have no need or want for god, hence I know peace. If you think Atheist are so bad, WHY DONT WE LOOK AT THE NUMBERS shall we? How about we start with Prison population by religion
76.6% – Christian
19.1% – No Religion/Refused to Answer
1.3% – Jewish
0.7% – Other/Not Specified
0.5% – Muslim/Islamic
0.5% – Buddhist
0.4% – Atheist
0.3% – Hindu
0.05% – Native American
0.04% – Bahai
0.027% – Sikh
0.026% – Scientology
0.01% – Santeria
0.005% – Rastafarian
Kham
06/25/09 2:42pmHow about by divorce rate
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%
Kham
06/25/09 2:46pmYea Christians sure seem to know peace dont they. Better extract that rafter from your own eye before you take the splinter out of mine.
Todd
06/25/09 3:41pmKham,
Yes, you sound very peaceful. LOL
Kham
06/25/09 4:16pmWell, its like this. The Gays should be allowed to get married, they pay there taxes same as all of us. To deny them this right, is evil. To do nothing in the face of evil, Is evil.
If I am indifferent to this topic, that would be evil.DJJ
06/25/09 4:44pmThe SHIP OF FOOLS is here!
The SHIP Is Sinking, Where are our rights?
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/25/09 5:05pmTodd- Kham is very peaceful. He has the freedom to think for himself, to live life to the fullest, and to be a happy and moral human being. That’s atheism.
Anyway, why is it so wrong to be married to the one you love, if they are of the same sex? It’s simply none of your business.
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. — Mohandas Gandhi
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/25/09 5:26pmChristians who hate gays are making a mockery of their own savior, Jesus Christ. The grace they are willing to accept as followers of Christ is suddenly not good enough to extend to those they find offensive. It’s a double standard, based not in biblical truth but in fear and the desire for control.
...They make a mockery of Jesus by picking and choosing which lifestyle sins are covered by God’s grace and which ones are not.
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DJJ
06/25/09 8:53pmPEOPLE! Redouble your resources and focus on the horrific cap and tax bill being voted on tomorrow. This will do the same thing it did to Spain’s economy, as the blueprints are nearly identical: unemployment will double. After vast economic politics are taken care of, then we should expend energy on civil rights.
Why should we tax our carbon emissions without assurances from India and China? Instead of Cap and Tax, let’s just levy sky high tariffs on China’s goods, because their coal power is much dirtier than ours.
DJJ
06/25/09 8:56pmThe Federal government’s money used to come from Here
E-mail Congress, tell them to substitute tariffs for cap and tax.
Todd
06/25/09 10:23pmRejection,
Given the hatred and intolerance and bile Kahm has been spewing, I find it hard to believe anyone would view him as peaceful, free thinking, happy or moral.
For the record, I haven’t said anything about gay marriage in this thread. In fact, I question the entire concept of state involvement in the matter. I’ve simply pointed out the hypocrisy of those who claim to be tolerant.
By the way, why did you limit your question about “why is it so wrong to be married to the one you love” to same-sex marriage?
Kham
06/25/09 10:37pmYou make it sound like I’m marching people into ovens. You see hate where facts are. Where is my hypocrisy exactly?
Kham
06/25/09 10:40pmDefinitions of hypocrisy on the Web:
* an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction * insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have * Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself. For example, an adult telling children not to smoke cigarettes, even though the adult smokes. … Just so we are clear on the definition.Paul
06/26/09 10:37amWhy does this always happen in these discussions? Chelsea, Kham, Todd, Hope, and others; your beliefs about god and religion do not matter. Getting all emotional about these (dis)beliefs distracts us from the real matter. Should the civil contract of marriage be extended to same-sex couples? This is an argument where common law and constitutional protections are to be invoked, not spiritual speculation or heretical sarcasm. Again, it’s about the law and the legal argument is an easy one. Equality is same-sex marriage.
Todd
06/26/09 11:25amKham,
Oh, we’re very clear on the definition of hypocrisy. And you’ve provided several examples here to illustrate.
Kham
06/26/09 11:52amTodd, Please cut and paste it. Explain yourself. I’ve answered every question, yet you try to distance yourself. Answer my question(s) Todd. Ive answered yours, yet no one will answer mine. Theres this huge double standard here. Please, with sugar on it. My best guess is this issue, that Ive been simplifying for you. I’ll try and explain why tolerance to something that shouldn’t be tolerated is bad.
(ps) I’ll return to being nice when you guys stop trying to beat up people who are just trying to get married.
...View full comment »
Kham
06/26/09 11:54amUm, darn, um whats that (ps) doing wayyy up there, kinda defeats the whole readability of that post
Todd
06/26/09 12:01pmKham,
As I stated earlier, I’ve not said anything in this thread about gay marriage and in fact question the entire premise of government being involved in marriage to begin with, ergo I don’t owe you any “answers” to anything. I’ve simply pointed out the hypocrisy of yourself and others regarding your intolerant behavior while advocating for tolerance.
Kham
06/26/09 12:01pmTodd, Please cut and paste it. Explain yourself. Iâve answered every question, yet you try to distance yourself. Answer my question(s) Todd. Ive answered yours, yet no one will answer mine. Theres this huge double standard here. Please, with sugar on it. My best guess is this issue, that Ive been simplifying for you. Iâll try and explain why tolerance to something that shouldnât be tolerated is bad.
(Your walking down the street, you see a fist fight.
...View full comment »
Kham
06/26/09 12:06pmTodd where have I advocated tolerance good sir? Are you sure that you understand the word hypocrisy, because I am not. If you argue against me with a Long story of Jack and the bean stalk when I am talking about a legal point. Yes I am going to rip you a new one and send you back to the kids table.
Todd
06/26/09 1:39pmKham, Is that more of that “peaceful?”
Grad 08
06/26/09 1:55pmwait. seriously. since when did plain old common sense and good judgment get over shaddowed by side ways political agendas? gay “marriage” is such a stupid concept. I’m amazed people even discuss it. come on, people.
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/26/09 3:19pmDear Grad 08,
Explain why gay marriage is a stupid concept. “Plain old common sense” to me dictates they have every right that you have.
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/26/09 3:22pmTodd,
The only examples of hatred and intolerance I’ve seen here is from christians, not Kham.
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/26/09 3:26pmLet’s see what Christ has to say about this subject:
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. “
Matthew 7:1-2
And:
“Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
...View full comment »
Gee Kham this reminds me....
06/26/09 3:35pm…Of you and Jack and you are the bad guy and Jack is the good guy. I was rooting for Jack then too. Hey I even called you on it. Why do you also say things like “Would of been nice, kind and intelligent”. in others posts? What is up with you? Gosh you are cute. You’re wife better be keeping a close eye on you. I know you.
Rejection of Pascal's Wager
06/26/09 3:41pmI guess some people resort to insults instead of participating in a conversation. “Gee Kham this reminds me…” is a perfect example.
As I was saying…
It is a double standard. It is a mockery. If Christ took their sins to the cross and became an adulterer through propitiation before burying that sin in the ground, then Christ also took the gay person’s sin to the cross and became a homosexual before burying that sin in the ground.
...View full comment »
Todd
06/26/09 3:43pmRejection,
Of course you wouldn’t see it. You’re just as intolerant as he is.
Oceana
06/26/09 8:42pmWhy is same-sex marriage even a problem for people? If your church does not allow homosexual marriages, a law making it legal for gay couples to marry does not force you to allow a gay wedding in your church. Just as I, not being Jewish for instance, could not expect to get married in an orthodox synagogue. Making gay marriage legal provides people the right to enter into a license agreement together, legal in the eyes of the state, that provides them the rights and privileges identified by the state for a married couple.
...View full comment »
Kham
06/26/09 8:57pmTodd
06/26/09 11:03pmKham,
Is bold type another example of you being “peaceful?” You really need to seek help for all that anger.
Todd
06/26/09 11:07pmOceana,
You raise some interesting points. I’d have to disagree with your premise, however, that marriage is a “basic civil right” if you’re going to qualify that right as obtaining a license from the state. Government is incapable of granting anyone any type of right. Rights exist in spite of government, not because of it. That’s why I stated several times here that I question the whole concept of state involvement in the matter.
Kham
06/26/09 11:31pmTodd, if anyone is angry here its you. At best I am frustrated with your lack of intelligence. For one thats not bold type, please for the love of your god, pay attention to the language that we all agreed upon. I never said I was peaceful, I said I know peace. Why are we talking about it anyway, its not even the issue here. Your nick picking on a non topic is very Karl Rove like. I still am trying to figure out if your For Gay marriage or not. How about you answer me that one little question. The question is again: Is Todd for Gay Marriage
Don S
06/27/09 12:56pmTo “Hope”. What do you know of Jesus? The dude wasn’t married and hung out with twelve guys. He had the good sense, I guess, to say no to the companionship of a permanent squeeze. Hope, I suggest you read up on the women’s political party in Sweden which is asking for the abolishment of marriage, in their opinion an archaic institution. But then, in Sweden, every citizen is valued and the baby is given every opportunity to succeed. The “family” here is trapped in a raising-nurturing-expense driven hoax which results in unhappy people.
Kham
06/27/09 4:42pmCan’t you believe in your god AND let gays get married? Is that asking so much? I really dont want to convert you, I doubt anyone really wants too. If it severs some purpose ( to make you feel better) than thats fine, until you take it too far. Just let others enjoy there civil rights. Please.
Don S
06/28/09 1:08amAll religions and belief systems claim miracles. Hope, if Jesus returns, as you expect, he will beat a hasty retreat after he sees what you folks have done “in his name’. I’ll take Buddhism any day over the Saints and Sinners crowd. I expect that a real Jesus would embrace all faith systems and all people. Thanks be for Freedom of Religion, which also implies Freedom From Religion.
jim
06/28/09 3:04pmMy turn after reading both sides of the story. many of you still donât get it
...One being looked at like youâre a second class citizen. 2 I want my partner by my bed side if I fall ill or become injured and unable to discuss my wishes . Also thereâs that little inherent issue , the fact that I could lose my job because of my privet life ! Oh thatâs already happened ! And the fact that I do contribute to society.
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Don S
06/28/09 4:41pmWe do get it, Jim. If the hate mongering bible thumpers control your destiny, and they use all biblical obscure passages that only they are able to translate, then some folks are up the creek. Hopefully, and thank you President Obama, we can escape the insular world view of the Christians represented best by George Bush and his ilk and march on hand in hand with the world.
Hope
06/29/09 9:56amDon S. you stated that “ If the hate mongering bible thumpers control your destiny, and they use all biblical obscure passages that only they are able to translate, then some folks are up the creek.” I understand what you are saying, in part. Yes you want gay marriage and you want to see them have “civil rights”, as you believe they should recieve. Okay as I already wrote Kham, you can see I am looking into this matter, myself.
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Kham
06/29/09 10:07amWith the divorce rate the way it is, its not really sacred anymore, if it ever was.
Hope
06/29/09 10:27amYes Kham, you are correct on that. Marriage is something people have to work on. And when your feelings aren’t met and you aren’t feeling seen, because your spouse travels so much, or whatever the situation, you need to speak up. Communication is KEY. Take time to compliment one another. Take time to notice one another. Take time to be romantic. Take time to be playful and inquire one another in all ways, if you know what I mean,(sexually). Don’t allow your sex life to become a chore, or boring or stale…it can happen so easily.
...View full comment »
Buzz
06/29/09 10:27amGeorgia Tech
“White & Gold”
(Played after a touchdown)
So then it’s up with the White and Gold
...Down with the Red and the Black
Georgia Tech is out for a victory
We’ll drop our battle axe on Georgia’s head, CHOP!
When we meet her our team will surely beat her
Down on old Georgia’s farm there’ll be no sound
When our bow wows rip through the air
When the battle is over Georgia’s team will be found
With the Yellow Jackets swarming around.
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Pete
06/29/09 10:30amPurdue
“Hail Purdue”
To Your Call Once More We Rally;
Alma Mater Hear Our Praise;
Where The Wabash Spreads Its Valley;
Filled With Joy Our Voices Raise.
Form The Skies In Swelling Echoes
Come The Cheers That Tell The Tale
Of Your Vict’ries And Your Heroes,
Hail Purdue! We Sing All Hail!
Chorus:
Hail, Hail To Old Purdue!
All Hail To Our Old Gold And Black!
Hail, Hail To Old Purdue!
Our Friendship May She Never Lack.
Ever Grateful, Ever True,
Thus We Raise Our Song Anew
Of The Days We’ve Spent With You,
All Hail Our Own Purdue!
Aubie
06/29/09 10:31amAuburn
“War Eagle!”
War… Eagle, fly down the field.
Ever to conquer, never to yield.
War… Eagle, fearless and true.
Fight on, you orange and blue.
Go! Go! Go!
On to vict’ry, strike up the band.
Give ‘em hell, give ‘em hell;
Stand up and yell, Hey! War…Eagle win for Auburn,
Power of Dixie Land!
Willie the Wildcat
06/29/09 10:32am“Bear Down, Arizona”
Let’s Cheer for Arizona
Let’s Raise our voices high
Let’s Cheer for Arizona
The Bear Down Battle Cry
Let’s Cheer our team to Victory
Let’s Cheer our team to Fame
Let’s Cheer for Arizona
For Spirit Wins the Game
Bear Down Arizona
Bear Down Red and Blue
Bear Down Arizona
Hit ‘em hard, Let ‘em know who’s who
Bear Down Arizona
Bear Down Red and Blue
Go! Go! Wildcats Go!
Arizona, Bear Down!
The Matador
06/29/09 10:33amTexas Tech
“Fight Raiders Fight”
Fight Raiders fight,
Fight Raiders fight,
Fight for the school we love so dearly
We’ll hit ‘em high
We’ll hit ‘em low
Push that ball across the goal,
TECH, FIGHT, FIGHT!
We’ll praise her name
Boost her to fame
Fight for the Scarlet and the Black
We will hit ‘em, we will wreck ‘em
Hit ‘em, wreck ‘em Texas Tech
And the victory bells will ring out.
Kham the divorce rate needs to change
06/29/09 11:10amYou are 100% correct! It doesn’t reflect a sacred marriage, very insightful. I hope we all can think about our marriage and our kids, before we give up on something that was meant to last a lifetime.
Thanks again Kham, great question.
Hope
Goldie the Gopher
06/29/09 11:14amMinnesota
“Minnesota Rouser”
Minnesota, hats off to thee,
To thy colors true we shall ever be,
Firm and strong, united are we.
Rah! Rah! Rah! for Ski-U-Mah,
RAH! RAH! RAH! RAH!
Rah for the U. of M.
Minnesota, hats off to thee,
To thy colors true we shall ever be,
Firm and strong, united are we.
Rah! Rah! Rah! for Ski-U-Mah,
RAH! RAH! RAH! RAH!
Rah for the U. of M.
M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A!
Minnesota! Minnesota!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah GOPHERS!
Compassion
06/29/09 11:24amTo those who this article was written about…I wish you well.
To Don S.
06/29/09 11:50amI am sorry I didn’t answer your question.“Hope, if Jesus returns, as you expect, he will beat a hasty retreat after he sees what you folks have done “in his name’.” All I can tell you Don S. is that Jesus is so far above us, I am sure that HE can handle anything and it will be done correctly, the creator knows his created-us. I am sure that it pains HIM to see how many things have been contrbuted to religion, that weren’t the true faith at all. HE is still being crucified by false teachings.
I think I have said everything I can say...
06/29/09 12:18pmTo Kham and Don S.,
...I hope that you have seen my my sincerity in know Christ and wanting HIM in my life. I have tried to be real. I have fallen away and I am trying to work my way back to him. I just feel like I am stuck on PAUSE. I want to thank you for the questions, I will have a purpose to go to HIM with my questions and by doing so I will be seeking HIM again.
View full comment »
Cougar
06/29/09 12:55pmBasic overview of Fight Song Lyrics
We have a large and extensive database of over 400 College Fight Songs. Songs from the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and much more. You can find the Fighting Irish, Seminoles, Hurricanes, Trojans, Buckeyes, Bulldogs, Texas, North Carolina, Volunteers, Bruins, and the Gator’s Orange and Blue Chomp. Feel free to visit all colleges, even your rivals.
...View full comment »
John Connor
06/29/09 6:21pmI have enjoyed reading all these blogs. I never checked this paper out before now. I accidently ran across this website, I am not a college kid, but I certaintly enjoy the articles and especially the various blogs. Thanks to all who contributed. You have certaintly made my day interesting.
John Connor
06/29/09 7:05pmI have given this article some thought. I was wondering if anyone else thought that some people are born this way,while others are a result of lifes circumstances.
Andrew
06/30/09 2:34pm“A marriage is between only one man and one woman,” she said. “It doesn’t mean you have four women together and that defines a family. It’s been like that forever. It’s just that in recent years, people want to change that.”… Many religions stopped practicing polygamy when the law forbade it. So whats the difference of making them be tolerant of same-sex marriage that takes place at the state level in the state’s courts?
bbwhine
07/01/09 9:22amLoved the fight songs. Here’s another one I liked a lot back in the day.
From the Hall of Montazuma
To the shore of Tripoli;
We fought our country’s battles
In the air, on land, and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title
Of United States Marines.
Also like Purdue, alma mater an all that.
Cool Songs.....
07/01/09 9:32amThese songs have such a theme of honor to them, very patriot in theme.
You are so cute and so funny.
Amazing these songs
07/01/09 9:48amThey were posted one after another how could that possibly be, minutes wise, I mean…I can’t figure out how they were copied and posted so quickly, really suprises me. Just part of the mystery of a brillant mind I guess.
Kham
07/01/09 10:07amIts only peoples civil rights we are talking about here, why not post a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with it to cheapen the thread, and I have another idea, why not just leave them there, instead of deleting those worthless post. Yay! Lets rethink womens voting, American slavery, then 3/5ths vote! While posting fight songs ! Yay !
Hope
07/01/09 10:19amYou really need to run for office. You are a shoe in. Aren’t you?
I am still searching myself on this topic
07/01/09 10:43amI am trying to be open, I do feel for those that are gay and in a committed relationship. However that is not often the case. I have begun to study the subject by going to gotquestions.org. I can type in any question and I am given many resources.
...To summarise some of what I have read: “ According to the Bible, marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Gay marriage/same-sex marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage.
View full comment »
Kham
07/01/09 11:17amDebate Dogma
Hes much more eloquent than I on, well, probably everything. Just remember when you vote there are people, your very neighbors who get affected by it. On a personal sidenote, I was taken aback by the decorated vets post. For some reason I never considered that angle, and I think its compelling.I will view it
07/01/09 11:26amI will take what you said into consideration. Please think about at least some of what I have shared with you, as you once so politely said..Please.
Bucky Badger
07/01/09 11:34am“On Wisconsin”
On Wisconsin, On Wisconsin, plunge right through that line.
Run the ball clear down the field, touchdown sure this time.
On Wisconsin, On Wisconsin, fight on for her fame.
Fight, fellows, fight, fight, fight, we’ll win this game.
On Wisconsin, On Wisconsin, stand up Badgers sing.
“Forward” is our driving spirit, loyal voices ring.
On Wisconsin, On Wisconsin, raise her glowing flame.
Stand, fellows, let us now salute her name.
“If You Want to be a Badger (Badger Ballad)”
If you want to be a badger,
Just come along with me,
By the bright shining light,
By the light of the moon.
If you want to be a Badger,
Just come along with me,
By the bright shining light the moon.
(Chorus)
...By the light of the moon,
By the light of the moon,
By the bright shining light,
By the light of the moon.
If you want to be a Badger,
Just come along with me,
By the bright shining light of the moon.
View full comment »
Herky the Hawk
07/01/09 11:36am“The Iowa Fight Song”
The word is fight, fight, fight for Iowa
Let every loyal Iowan sing
The word is fight, fight, fight for Iowa
Until the walls and rafters ring. (Go Hawks!)
Come on and cheer, cheer, cheer for Iowa
We’re gonna cheer until we hear the final gun
The word is fight, fight, fight for Iowa
Until the game is won.
“On Iowa”
On Iowa proudly at the fore
On Iowa on for evermore
Ev’ry loyal son will give
A Rousing toast to you
Ev’ry loyal daughter loves you true
On Iowa with your wealth untold
A heritage to us you did unfold
Love of family, love of friend
Love of country too
Makes us proud for what you stand
Our Dear Old Gold.
Iowa!
...View full comment »
The Chief
07/01/09 11:38amIllinois Fighting Illini
“Illinois Loyalty”
We’re loyal to you Illinois,
...We’re “Orange and Blue,” Illinois,
We’ll back you so stand
‘Gainst the best in the land,
For we know you have sand, Illinois,
Rah! Rah!
So crack out that ball Illinois,
We’re backing you all Illinois;
Our team is our fame protector,
On!
View full comment »
Todd
07/01/09 11:38amKham,
Civil rights? So anyone who is not admitted to any institution they wish is having their civil rights violated? Does that mean, for example, anyone with an opinion about public policy should be allowed to be a member of the legislature if they so wish, regardless of whether or not they meet the legal prerequisites?
Yahoo the Songs Are Back!!!!
07/01/09 11:39amYAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When all else fails…laugh!!!!! Love the fight songs.love.love.love!
Ya, Todd is back!!!
07/01/09 11:45amYour #1 fan again. You rock and Kham rolls!!!! I love some good rock and roll. I know that Iggy pop is the man you like to put on the stero!
Get rockin and that’s an order…after all I can’t get these fight songs out of my head!
Halliarious
07/01/09 11:47amWhat I will miss tomorrow…gotta work to bad for me. ;( Just don’t forget the thread.
This has got to be the longest on going post of all times...
07/01/09 12:04pmNot that it is bad, but how about some new articles, what is everyone alseep? Time for your morning cup of coffee.
Kham
07/01/09 1:43pmTodd, Am I supposed to answer your questions, and you get to Not answer mine? Is that how its supposed to work? Go back to the kids table before you get hurt again.
Todd
07/01/09 2:02pmKham,
I already answered your question. Several times. Is this your way of stalling? Just ask for a timeout if this is over your head.
Kham
07/01/09 2:28pmYou do realize the whole post is right above us right? That we can scroll up and look and see that you have done no such thing. SO far everything you have accused me of, you have been guilty of, not me (hypocrisy, stalling, and being in over your head to be specific) All that aside, assume that I am someone with a child’s intellect, and tell me Is Todd for Gay Marriage. Because it looks like your against it.
...View full comment »
Kham
07/01/09 2:39pmI think Todd doesn’t care, I think he just likes to fight with me ( for some reason)
Todd
07/01/09 3:04pmKham,
I’ll type more slowly this – the third or fourth – time. I question the entire concept of government involvement in marriage.
Now can you answer the “civil rights” claim?
Kham
07/01/09 3:18pmYour answer is totally invalid, I asked two questions. The first question was a yes or no type question. And the second question was more of an essay type. Todd are you even reading my post dude?
Kham
07/01/09 3:31pm: Does that mean, for example, anyone with an opinion about public policy should be allowed to be a member of the legislature if they so wish, regardless of whether or not they meet the legal prerequisites?
Is this ugly analogy what you are referring too? Allow me to use one to explain why yours is so bad. Your analogy is likening a pocket watch to a single cell. Both have moving parts, both are a sum of many parts,that the sum is greater than the parts, and I could go on. But what makes this analogy bad is the fact that they have many specific defining characteristics. Size, composition, the fact that one is alive and one is not.Todd
07/01/09 3:38pmOK, I’ll take it you can’t answer the question.
Kham
07/01/09 3:51pmThey are Tax payers, they are functioning citizens that you interact with, they are your neighbors, they are your neighbors kids. The state has a legal contract in place already to make a legal union of two people. Since they pay taxes and are, legal, law abiding citizens of the US they have a right to ALL of the services due to any citizen. Including the legal union of two people. If that anit CFC I am done talking to you.
Kham
07/01/09 3:57pmIs it just me or was that like trying to talk to Karl Rove? Seriously, thats a text book definition of a troll, and I have been breaking the rule.
Application of the term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used as an ad hominem strategy to discredit an opposing position by attacking its proponent.
Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer’s motives.
...View full comment »
Dick Cheney
07/01/09 4:20pmEven I am not evil enough to hate my own daughter, and deprive her of her right to pursue happiness.
Dick Cheney
07/01/09 4:29pm….After all it could just be a phase….. or maybe I she could get a different pool boy…
Todd
07/01/09 7:52pmKham,
That’s a pretty long walk around the barn to avoid the question. But I think you’re being too hard on yourself. You aren’t a troll … at least not on here. Maybe in real life.
Dick Cheney
07/01/09 11:04pmDo you wanna Job there Todd? With your skills and reasoning I could be President again!
Freddie and Freida Falcon
07/02/09 8:22amBowling Green Falcons
“Forward Falcons”
(played after a score)
Forward Falcons!
Forward Falcons!
Fight for victory,
Show our spirit,
Make them fear it,
Fight for ol’ B-G.
Forward Falcons!
Forward Falcons!
Make the contest keen,
Hold up the fame
Of our mighty name
And win for Bowling Green!
“Ay Ziggy Zoomba”
(played after a win)
Ay Ziggy Zoomba Zoomba Zoomba
Ay Ziggy Zoomba Zoomba Ze
Ay Ziggy Zoomba Zoomba Zoomba
Ay Ziggy Zoomba Zoomba Zi
Roll along, you B-G warriors
Roll along, and win for B-G-S-U.
Brutus Buckeye
07/02/09 8:23amOhio State Buckeyes
“Across the Field”
Fight the team across the field
Show them Ohio’s here,
Set the earth reverberating
With a mighty cheer,
Rah! Rah! Rah!
Hit them hard and see how they fall,
Never let that team get the ball,
Hail, hail, the gang’s all here,
So let’s win that old conference now.
“Buckeye Battle Cry”
In old Ohio there’s a team
That’s known throughout the land
Eleven warriors brave and bold,
Whose fame will ever stand.
And when the ball goes over,
Our cheers will reach the sky,
Ohio Field will hear again
The Buckeye Battle Cry!
Drive, Drive on down the field,
...Men of the scarlet and gray;
Don’t let them through that line,
We’ve got to win this game today,
COME ON OHIO!
Smash through to victory,
We cheer you as we go!
Our honor defend we will fight to the end
for OHIO!
View full comment »
Bennie the Beaver
07/02/09 8:25amOregon State Beavers
“Hail to Old OSU”
OSU, our hats are off to you
Beavers, Beavers, fighters through and through
We’ll root for every man, we’ll cheer for every stand
That’s made for old OSU.
Watch our team go tearing down the field
Men of iron, their strength will never yield.
Hail, hail, hail, hail
Hail to old OSU.
Nelida
07/02/09 9:15amGenesis 2:21-24 and Matthew 19:4-6 shed no light on marriage being between one man and one woman… they talk about consummation, the creation of life, making a child. And we all know that you need at least a piece of a man and a woman to create a child… duh.
And what is marriage anyway? Is it a creation of society? The church? The government? Maybe it did start in the church however how many heterosexual couples get married in a church?
...View full comment »
Lil Red
07/02/09 10:32amNebraska Huskers
“Hail Varsity”
(Played after a touchdown)
Hail to the team!
The stadium rings as everyone sings
The Scarlet and Cream
Cheers for a victory echo our loyalty
So on mighty men!
The eyes of the land upon every hand
Are looking at you
Fight on to victory
Hail to the men of Nebraska U!
“There is No Place Like Nebraska”
(Played after the PAT)
There is no place like Nebraska
Dear old Nebraska U
Where the girls are the fairest
The boys are the squarest
Of any old place that I knew
There is no place like Nebraska
Where they’re all true blue
We’ll all stick together in all kinds of weather
For dear old Nebraska U.
Leprechaun
07/02/09 10:33amNotre Dame Fighting Irish
“Notre Dame Victory March”
Rally sons of Notre Dame
Sing her glory and sound her fame
Raise her Gold and Blue
And cheer with voices true:
Rah, rah, for Notre Dame
We will fight in every game,
Strong of heart and true to her name
We will ne’er forget her
And will cheer her ever
Loyal to Notre Dame.
Cheer, cheer for Old Notre Dame,
Wake up the echoes cheering her name,
Send a volley cheer on high,
Shake down the thunder from the sky!
What though the odds be great or small,
Old Notre Dame will win over all,
While her loyal sons are marching
Onward to victory!
Rameses
07/02/09 10:34amNorth Carolina Tar Heels
Here comes Carolina-lina.
Here comes Carolina-lina.
We hail from NCU.
We’ve got the spirit in it.
We’ve got the team to win it.
We wear the colors white and blue,
So it’s fight, fight, fight for Carolina
As Davie did in days of old
As we gather round the Well
Cheer that Tar Heel team like hell
For the glory of NCU.
I’m a Tar Heel born.
I’m a Tar Heel bred.
And when I die I’ll be a Tar Heel dead.
So it’s rah rah Carolina-lina.
Rah rah Carolina-lina.
Rah rah Carolina-lina—rah rah rah!
“Carolina Victory”
(played after a victory)
There’ll be a Carolina Victory,
...When cross the field our foe has fled.
Cheer our team to victory,
For we are Tar Heels born and bred (Rah!
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Cowboy Joe
07/02/09 10:36amWyoming Cowboys
“Ragtime Cowboy Joe”
He always sings raggy music to his cattle as he swings
Back and forward in his saddle on a horse (pretty good horse!)
He’s a syncopated gaiter
And you out to hear the meter to the roar of his repeater
How they run (yes run!)
When they hear him come, because the western folks all know,
He’s a high fallutin’, rootin’ tootin’
Son of a gun from old Wyoming
Ragtime Cowboy, (talk about your cowboy), Ragtime Cowboy Joe.
Kham I had some time to stop by...
07/02/09 12:10pm…before heading to work. I viewed some of the video, Debate Dogma. I watched a few of the videos. But I do not understand your comment “I was taken aback by the decorated vets post. For some reason I never considered that angle, and I think its compelling.” Maybe you could clarify what you were trying to say. I have more insights into what an atheist believes. I see that you believe that there are rules of reason and you believe that those like myself the religious)ignore those rules.
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Sorry about the oops...
07/02/09 12:15pmBut I only have less than an hour to spare.
Someone really loves their fight songs!
07/02/09 12:17pmToo bad we can’t listen to them on our computer as we blog!
To Nelida
07/02/09 12:30pmAs you stated “In the midst of your bickering ladies and gents just remember that we aren’t asking for you to get to know us, or accept us, or even like us we just would like the capability to provide, like you do, for a family that we love, in the same way you love yours. We just want to be equals. That’s all.” Thank you for what you shared. Thank you, Hope
Matt 19:4-6
07/02/09 1:01pmMatthew 19:4–6 (NIV)
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one.
…
Genesis 2:21-24
07/02/09 1:04pmGenesis 2:21–24 (NIV)
21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
…
Kham
07/02/09 1:18pmHow life could come from nothing is a scientific field called Abiogenisis, and let me tell you the line between life and a chemical reaction is is pretty blurry at that early point. If you mean the earth and the solar system, that would be the field of Astronomy. There are many sister fields to Astronomy that deal with specific areas of interest. As to the personal inquire about what turned me off at such a young age, the thing that made me start to question the whole thing was the lack of god presence upon his people.
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Kham
07/02/09 2:47pmRe Vets post: I was trying to say that I never thought about a couple in the military that happened to be homosexual. Talk about hardships….
Kham
07/02/09 3:05pmAtheist have hope, I have hope. If I didn’t have hope I would bother raising a kid, or going to work, or get married, or even course correct when I’m driving down the hi-way. As an atheist at every funeral I attend, I am grieving the loss of companionship, and the loss of all that accumulated knowledge, as well as empathy for those around me some feeling worse than I.
Its kinda like the movie the matrix, you can stay in your nice world, and its prolly better in there and out in the real world. In here its alittle dirty, but its real.Nelida
07/02/09 3:08pmI am fully aware of the scripture in Matthew 19:4â6 and Genesis 2:21â24 and the rest of the King James Bible. First of all, I was raised in a small town, republican, Roman Catholic family (now use the argument that environment effects sexual preference) and Second, I have had it all thrown in my face time and time again; but I read it the same every time. “Two become one flesh” not “two become one semi-stable, billion dollar industry supported, sign a piece of paper, relationship.” In the Bible the joining of Adam and Eve was to create mankind not to create weddings.
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Uga
07/02/09 3:33pmGeorgia Bulldogs
“Glory”
(Played after a score)
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
G-E-O-R-G-I-A.
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
Glory, glory to old Georgia!
G-E-O-R-G-I-A.
“Hail Georgia”
(Played after the PAT)
Hail to Georgia down in Dixie!
Our college honored fair and true,
The Red and Black is her standard,
Proudly it waves!
Streaming today and the ages through,
She’s the fairest of the Southland,
We’ll pledge our love to her for aye,
To that college dear we’ll ring a cheer,
All hail to dear old UGA!
Mike the Tiger
07/02/09 3:35pmLouisiana State Tigers
“Fight for LSU”
Like knights of old we fight to hold
The glory of the Purple and Gold
We’ll carry through we’ll die or do
To win this game for LSU
Keep trying for the final score
Come on you Tigers fight for more, for more
Come you Tigers fight, fight, fight
For dear old LSU.
“Hey!
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Kham
07/02/09 3:35pmthe gay storm
maybe we can fix two problems
Big Orange
07/02/09 3:36pmSyracuse Orange
“Down the Field”
Out upon the gridiron stands old Syracuse,
...Warriors clad in orange and in blue,
Fighting for the fame of Alma Mater.
Soon those Crouse chimes will be ringing,
Soon you’ll hear those fellows singing.
Onondaga’s braves are out to win today,
The sons of Syracuse are ready for the fray,
The line holds like a wall and now the Orange has the ball,
So ready for that old long yell.
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Kham
07/02/09 3:37pmTemple Owls
“T for Temple U”
T for Temple U
Un-i-ver-sity!
Fight! Fight! Fight! For the cherry and the white;
For the cherry and the white we’ll fight, fight, fight!
(repeat)
“Fight! Temple Fight!”
Fight! Temple, fight on!
Fight with all your might!
Fight for the Cherry and White,
Keep our colors high!
Roll that ball and hit the line,
All the Temple stars will shine,
Skill and courage win the game
Fight on, Temple, fight!
Nelida
07/02/09 3:39pmNorth Carolina State Wolfpack
Shout aloud to the men who will play the game to win
We’re behind you, keep fighting for State,
Hold that line, hold ‘em fast,
We’ll reach victory at last
We’re behind you, keep fighting for State,
Rise up to the fray and let your colors wave,
Shout out for dear old N.C. State! GO STATE!
And where-e’er we go,
we’ll let the whole world know,
We’re behind you, keep fighting for State!
“The Red and White from State”
We’re the Red and White from State
And we know we are the best.
A hand behind our back,
We can take on all the rest.
Come over the hill, Carolina.
Devils and Deacs stand in line.
The Red and White from N.C. State.
Go State!
Nelida
07/02/09 3:39pmI am gay and proud of it!
Kham
07/02/09 3:40pmMe too! Welcome to the sisterhood!
Jake (Todds Dad)
07/02/09 3:49pmBoy! Why anit you answering yer phone! I know yer mad at me but I just need to know why! Is it because I touched you, or is it more because you liked it?
Re:
07/02/09 3:54pmThats truly classy… congrats.
Of course I’m proud; what other choice do I have? You’re straight and proud aren’t you?
Nelida and Kham
07/02/09 3:56pmSo are we! I think.
Jesus (your Lord)
07/02/09 4:10pmI have already spoken
Knock it off and start...
07/03/09 9:23am..acting like a gentleman. You not only insulted me, but the gay community. Come on show your better side. I knew that posting scripture was gonna get your goat, sorry. Okay here is something I need to tell you.
Trust me on one thing, just because you have faith, doesn’t mean that it isn’t being tested all the time. Just because you have faith doesn’t mean that you don’t have doubt, you do. But it is my Faith and my Faith is my desire to believe. My faith allows me to believe and it isn’t always easy , it even has its moments of unbelief…
Eucharistic Miracles
07/03/09 9:26amPlease google Eucharistic Miracles. Please watch Eucharistic Miracle 1 and 2 and as many of the videos as you can stomach for me, please. Please click on the site Eucharistic miracles, they have a list of miracles, you can read…I know ahead that your stomach is probably already turning, because you think this stuff is utter nonsense, but it is the TRUTH, please reflect on it, PLEASE. Please do your own research with an OPEN MIND. Because as someone said one time, “Sometimes the brain gets in the way of the heart”. I saw the neatest display one time of Eucharistic Miracles, it showed stories of people through the centuries and the Eucharistic miracles they experience…I wish I could remember the story, but this young woman was going to be raped and she jumped through a window to get away.
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My own Faith experience...
07/03/09 9:34amKham, once I took pictures of the Blessed Mother’s Statue after praying the Rosary with a group of ladies. As I was getting ready to take the pictures I saw these Orin like things in the lens of my camera. When the pictures were developed…I saw more. One of my pictures has an angel and dove and it is a bright glowing light. Another picture has the blessed mother and her heart is red.
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orin means orb
07/03/09 9:38amI guess I still oops, oops! ;) are=a
Happy 4th of July!!!!
Bruins love gays
07/03/09 9:52am“Mighty Bruins”
We are the Mighty Bruins,
The best team in the West.
We’re marching on to victory,
To conquer all the rest.
We are the Mighty Bruins,
Triumphant evermore.
You can hear from far and near,
The Mighty Bruin roar!
U! (3 claps)
C! (3 claps)
L! (3 claps)
A! (3 claps)
U-C-L-A! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Those cute little songs are back!
07/03/09 9:58amThank goodness!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kham
07/03/09 1:03pmIf you wanted to show my a baby bunny rabbit fossil in the Jurassic period. I would have to check that out and do some rethinking. Mental unstable people with out the proper health care seeing things that they want to see, and willfully being ignorant of the world we live in and why thing work the way they do. Many of those people live (mentally) in the bronze age, of course they see magic every day.
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Kham
07/03/09 1:08pmOf course there was things I cannot explain, but I am watching a vid, and I cant talk to people, or do test myself, or see someone else test (because of lack of info) Of be in the same place at the same time as all these things happen. If Jesus really wants me to believe in him, all he needs to do is show up and chit chat for a few minutes with me IN PERSON.
Kham
07/03/09 1:13pmNow I am making MORE typos, I need to stop trying to type this stuff while multitasking.
Hope
07/03/09 3:46pm^^^Sounds like a good idea. One thing at a time. Remember an open mind. Not a closed heart. Thanks
Kham
07/03/09 4:04pmMy mind is open! But Hope, this doesn’t get my a BS filters. Meaning my reason ( that reason that you believe god put there, but doesn’t want me to use ) is showing me that this is nothing more than, snake oil for lack of a better metaphor.
Kham
07/03/09 4:05pm“We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.”
Roddenberry, Gene on Atheism
Okay Kham...
07/03/09 4:11pmOkay! He has already stopped by and believe me more then one time. But your closed heart won’t let HIM in. I have had real experiences, more than mentioned here, and if you don’t believe it that is fine, no problem. I just thought I would share some of the reasons that help me in my faith journey. I am no where at the level of reading and comprehension that you are at.
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PS. to you
07/03/09 4:29pmI just want to say that I am not always confortable around all Christians. I myself see alot of phonies. I have alot of questions I need answered myself, I am still on a faith journey. I at times like I don’t fit in. Sometimes I feel very unique from everyone else. But ask me can people talk to me, the answer is YES. At work I know everyone’s name, and I make a point to say HI, each time I work.
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Happy 4TH of July..KHAM IS THE MAN!
07/03/09 4:40pmWon’t be able to write. ;( gotta leave soon. No way to respond to answer you, sorry. Hope you can let me know if you had any change of heart, or what you think. I don’t expect anything to change overnight..In fact I will leave you in God’s hands,it is something between the two of you. It is your decision, I repsect that. I wish you the best! Have a great weekend!!! Remember SUNSHINE!!!
Kham
07/03/09 5:06pmoh yes, my computer is right next to my back door, and the weather is great at the moment. My kid is running around pushing a tonka dumptruck at hi speeds thru the lawn atm:) I allways get the impression that you think I am in pain or that my life is rather selfish. Thats just not the case, for instance, I mowed my neighbors lawn the other day without being asked because I knew his lawn mower was broken.
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07/04/09 1:04pmAtheist life vs Religious Life
Last Reply to comment above
07/05/09 2:30pmI greatly appreciate what you have shared about yourself. You are doing things for the right reasons, not for reward but just to be a good person! Honestly you have hit the nail on the head Kham. That is truely what it is all about. Giving of oneself to others out of the kindness of your heart, period. You truely are a great guy. I am sorry that I made you feel that I thought that you were selfish or in pain.
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