MSU 2nd in Mich. for appropriations

If you calculate per pupil state appropriations over the typical four year period, you will discover that msu students receive about $56,000 from the state, and University of michigan students receive about $90,000!!!

We see total appropriations in those charts, but one must remember that Umich has many grad students, and grad school has a different financial structure, and overall they have quite fewer students than msu.

So does anyone want to ask why we don’t spend the same per pupil at msu and Umich? Let’s hear the indefensible answers.

Of course we’re 2nd, we’ve got the most people. Since we’ve got the most students you should wonder why we’re not first? Its because, like Dan says, we get a very low amount per student compared to other Michigan schools.

Please do your homework next time instead of just repeating simple numbers. The real story ($ per student) paint an entirely different story.

The reason why UofM receives more state funding is because they have more economic impact in the state than MSU. We must remember that the state doesn’t care about education, number of graduates, community service, or anything that actually matters. The state cares about the economic impact that each University has in the state. UofM has more employees than MSU and, therefore, the state rewards them with additional funding because they give more money in wages to the state although UofM has an actual impact only in the Southeastern area of the state.

Uh… actually Student, MSU grads tend to be much more Michigan residents than UofM which means that our tax payers are not subsidizing out of state students nearly as much when they fund MSU.

Further, MSU studetns are much more likely to remain in state after graduation than UofM so they have a much more positive impact upon MI.

RE Student:

You went straight to my point. My argument is that the state doesn’t fund the University with most benefit for Michigan, but the one with the most current economic impact through employees. UofM has around 7,000 more jobs than MSU and they are non-academic jobs that probably are protected by unions. The state doesn’t care about educational improvements of the people but about economic impact and, since UofM has more employees, they get more money.

“MSU will become the power in the region with its combination of professional and agricultural studies.”

TOO FUNNY! Oh yeah, the future of this state is all about agriculture. Sure. Time to get all those long-dead family farms going again.
What, did you just wake up in the 19th century this morning?

“…but one must remember that Umich has many grad students, and grad school has a different financial structure, and overall they have quite fewer students than msu.”

“Since we’ve got the most students you should wonder why we’re not first?”

MSU enrollment (Fall 2008):

46,648 total:
36,337 undergraduate
10,311 graduate and professional

U-M enrollment (Fall 2008):

Total, all campuses: 56,857
Ann Arbor 41,028
Dearborn 8,569
Flint 7,260
Undergraduate 38,927
Graduate and Professional 17,930

MSU has traditionally been “second-in-line” when it comes to funding from the State. This is in spite of the fact that it has traditionally served a less elitist constituency. Further, although a number of years ago MSU committed to holding tuition increases to the rate of inflation to get more support from the legislature, they did not get proportionally more support in spite of trying to make education more affordable.

“UofM has around 7,000 more jobs than MSU and they are non-academic jobs that probably are protected by unions”

And here’s were most of those jobs are:

U-M HEALTH SYSTEM, faculty & staff employee total: 18,298

Hospitals and Health Centers: 12,298
U-M Medical School: 6,380
U-M School of Nursing: 175

State of Michigan funding to U-M Hospitals and Health Centers: $0

Lets see which industry shot up 12% in a otherwise stagnant economy. Yes, its the ag industry. Almost all farms in michigan are family owned (most corporate farms are made up of family members for tax purposes). The state should support both MSU and the MDA to ensure that the only bright spot for the state remains bright

Again, its the $ per student figure that isnt being discussed. MSU is by far lower than UofM in $ per student in undergrad, not due to more or less grad students.

Its not total UofM campus statewide combined getting more funding, UofM AA gets more funding alone as its per student $$$ is considerably higher than MSU.

“While agriculture by itself will not lead Michigan’s recovery, it will be more than a minimal component.”

More laughter! More like a zero component, given the scale of the problem.
Actually, ChicagoSpartan, I’m quite well informed about both the history and future trends in agriculture in this country,(and we are talking about this country, not Africa or Asia.) If there is one predominant feature of agricultural in the USA in the 20th century it was and is fewer and fewer people (jobs) producing ever more crops.

Nice fraudulent enrollment figures Fact Inventor. Here are the enrollment figures from Umich’s own website. Grand total all the professional and graduate schools and undergraduate is 41,000!!!

Real numbers for Umich, illustrating how the liberals in Eastern michigan steal from the rest of the state

And using three different disparate campuses is a pathetic attempt at confusing the michigan residents reading this who by now realize Umich is stealing from blue collar workers.

michigan has hidden appropriations to the Um Hospitals through the state and federal funded medicaid program.

Here’s a better idea: eliminate state appropriations to the universities at large and appropriate directly to families with students going into college. This will force the universities to compete with each other and drive down their bloated budgets, eliminating preferential university appropriation and wealth transfer to the Eastern portion of michigan.

many would probably fear that faculty would stream out of the state when university budgets are pared. False, tenured faculty will stay, because they have guaranteed employment despite being in the middle of a recession/depression.

“Ok, let’s see your calculations: what’s the 4 year per pupil state appropriation for msu and Umich? We’re all waiting.”

1. I really don’t do “calculations.” I search and report relevant data for purposes of discussion. You can too.

2. The State does not appropriate funds to universities on a per-student basis. You should know that. Maybe it should.

Ok, let’s see your calculations: what’s the 4 year per pupil state appropriation for msu and Umich? We’re all waiting.

Great article State News! This is on point for a student newspaper and is also a great read for those outside the university community. Great job digging for the financial information and the charts look good. Keep up the good work!

I guess you’re in the Western portion of Michigan, Dan Jakeway, or at least advocate for that area? Your idea is pretty much like the school voucher idea for primary and secondary school students. Appropriating funds directly to families, however, seems to me an invitation for fraud, corruption and theft of all kinds.

What about the idea, which gets floated periodically, of paying universities on a per-head basis for real product, i.e., actual graduates? You can set the per-head price to get the kind of product the state really wants and needs, i.e. NOT more elementary school teachers.

Another reason UM gets more per-pupil funding is because it has more graduate level (read expensive) research going on than MSU. I believe MSU is in the process of increasing its graduate and research capabilities and this “should” change the funding disparity somewhat.

FOR: Anonymous

SOURCE: The Chronicle Of Higher Education

Top Institutions in Total Research-and-Development Expenditures for Science and Engineering, 2005 Fiscal Year:

Johns Hopkins University $1,443,792,000
University of Michigan $808,887,000
University of Wisconsin at Madison $798,099,000
University of California at Los Angeles $785,625,000
University of California at San Francisco $754,444,000
University of California at San Diego $721,035,000
Stanford University $714,897,000
University of Washington $707,519,000
University of Pennsylvania $654,982,000
Duke University $630,752,000
Pennsylvania State University $625,764,000
Ohio State University $608,923,000
Cornell University $606,804,000
Massachusetts Institute of Technology $580,742,000
University of California at Berkeley $554,551,000
University of Minnesota $548,873,000
University of California at Davis $546,978,000
Columbia University $535,424,000
Washington University in St.

FOR: Anonymous

SOURCE: The Chronicle Of Higher Education

Universities Awarding the Most Earned Doctorates, 2006:

University of Texas at Austin 796
University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 754
University of California at Berkeley 747
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 720
University of California at Los Angeles 702
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 690
Pennsylvania State University at University Park 674
Ohio State University main campus 664
University of Wisconsin at Madison 649
Stanford University 644
Harvard University 637
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 602
University of Florida 599
University of Washington 578
University of Maryland at College Park 567
Purdue University main campus 561
University of Southern California 561
Texas A&M University at College Station 548
University of Pennsylvania 495
Columbia University 488
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 478
Cornell University 477
Michigan State University 452

FOR: Anonymous

SOURCE: The Chronicle Of Higher Education

Top Institutions In Alumni Support, 2006-07:
(excludes all gift sources other than alumni)

Stanford University $284,588,291
Cornell University $210,121,965
Yale University $192,421,017
Harvard University $188,156,000
University of Michigan $149,230,162
Princeton University $138,164,478
Columbia University $136,138,753
University of Pennsylvania $115,283,135
University of Notre Dame $111,905,227
University of Chicago $101,873,548
Massachusetts Institute of Technology $96,439,226
University of California at Berkeley $83,893,361
University of Virginia $79,236,099
University of California at Los Angeles $78,668,367
Dartmouth College $74,730,771
University of Wisconsin at Madison $73,042,720
Texas A&M University $71,838,212
Duke University $67,782,011
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill $67,406,588
Texas Tech University $64,942,859

wow, looking at these numbers makes MSU look like LCC compared to U of M. I know that not the case but…. man, those are some ugly numbers

Hilarious, Fact Checker can’t perform a simple arithmetic calculation, that’s some elite education from Umich at work, I’d wager. State Appropriations divided by number of IN-STATE enrollees in programs and departments qualified for state funding equals per pupil annual funding. Use state appropriation growth or reduction rates to estimate four year horizon.

Voila, that gives you per pupil appropriations.

Once again, Fact Checker is fallacious.

Furthermore, it’s hilarious, but ridiculous to suggest that a family can commit fraud with their own money. They are the taxpayers! We have this thing called michigan education trust, why not just require the state legislature to have x-number of met trusts which are unnamed until a michigan student takes the SAT or ACT. When the students passes the SAT or ACT, then the most qualified students shall receive a met trust in their name to spend as they please at any michigan university. Competition takes off, prices get driven down, admissions are considered purely on the basis of qualification, overall this is a better idea.

For admissions, some would probably worry that affirmative action would be circumvented, I don’t think so. Community colleges are going to be ramped up by President Obama, and those from poorer communities will be able to prepare themselves for the rigor of the university by attending the community colleges longer until they are actually intellectual qualified as indicated by SAT and ACT.

Wow, throwing all that money at Umich is like performing a certain bodily function in the windward direction. msu has more Rhodes Scholars. Umich has graduated such illustrious figures as Ted Kaczynski: The Unabomber, and Ann Coulter, who is on record saying that she wants Jews to become perfected Christians

For those who don’t know how to interpret the facts provided by FACT CHECKER, I have to point some things.

First, regarding the table of research expenditures, at least 40% of the research expenditures at UofM come from medical research, a field in which MSU is currently developing strongly. Moreover, without medical research expenditures UofM would be far below MSU. Just look at the table and noticed that Johns Hopkins, a University with a great medical school, and several other universities with good medical schools lead the way in this arena.

Amen, student… You make some very cogent points. Good to see some MSU students/fans/alums who, while not drinking any Green Kool-Aid, are simply not going to buy onto the typical Spartan woe-is-me, I didn’t go to Michigan garbage people like fact-checker are burdened with.

my decoder ring says: student = provost. There you have it, msu is a better investment. We have so much knowledge already developed by medical research, perhaps state funds would be better spent getting the money to undergraduate engineers, the type who design cars and other advanced technology for the new economy.

“Finally, regarding the table dedicated to alumni support, it is necessary to mention that during the academic year this information reflects UofM was strongly in its capital campaign while MSU was closing its campaign.”

I was just wondering what campaign you are talking about exactly. I am a telemarketer working to raise money for the university and we ALWAYS have campaigns going on (whether it be for the university as a whole or the individual colleges). Sadly enough, MSU is the least funded school in the Big Ten and with this economy is it almost impossible to get donations anymore.

Wow. Awesome comments everyone. I was content just reading until it dawned on me that where is all this effort and well thought out arguments in classes? I’m sure not all of you are current students, so it is reassuring to see that MSU produces excellent grads, but I wish that the effort reflected in these comments showed up in my classroom sometimes!

Interesting stuff. Two comments, context is important and one year numbers fluctuate a lot, so averages and trends over time provide a better understanding of the differences between univ’s.

Second, How about turning Umich into a private school? It acts like one and has the endowment of one anyway. Spin off Flint and Dearborn campuses or combine them with EMU or Wayne state, they get less than $50mil between them (my guess) thus saving $265mil for the state to fund the promise program.

“MSU is now among an elite group of universities
which has reached the milestone of raising
$1 billion from private sources,” added MSU Vice
President for University Development Chuck
Webb. “And among those universities, we are only
the third public university, along with Berkeley and
Purdue, to reach that amount without the added
fundraising benefit of a major on-campus
medical/research center. This is an accomplishment
of which we all can be very proud.”

I second msu prof’s idea for privatizing Umich, which is largely comprised of out of state tuition and carpet bagger in-state tuition students.

michigan was first in the nation to have pre-paid tuition with the michigan education trust in 1986. Out of state families routinely temporarily move to Detroit suburbs to have their golden child attend high school in michigan. They get cheap, socialized, subsidized elite, public education this way. Especially future doctors and lawyers always leave the state, because Umich’s primary care medical school is absolute crap.

MSU is second in line to Michigan maybe given MSU has the least qualified undergrad student body in the Big 10 and also has to lowest graduation rate in the Big 10, ( I believe only about 85% of MSU undergrads actually graduate from MSU within 6 years). Why would a state want to fund a 2nd tier under performing school over a school which is known around the world as a world class institution whose alumni have a long list of accomplishments, not to mention look at the alumni donations Michigan gets vs.

What return on investment? The educated graduates of University of Michigan are streaming out of the state. Why don’t we stop kidding ourselves and just appropriate directly to Harvard or Yale if all we care about is return on investment nationally? If you care about local return on investment, clamp down on residency requirements, privatize University of Michigan (most students come from very affluent families from around the nation anyway) and toughen up admission requirements at MSU.

Really, one shouldn’t care about TAs teaching classes if your student body learned to read in Grammar School.

First of all, DAN, I would like to correct your statement in that the best primary care medical programs in the state of Michigan are at Michigan State University.

Second, JAY, I don’t know if its your hate towards MSU or bad stereotypes of the University but all the facts you stated are wrong. I just would like to know, did you get denied from MSU? I feel bad for you.

Dan, so you think making students pay for majority of faculty salaries is fair while they get very little attention/interaction with them?… A good school always uses faculty and uses TA sparingly (another reason why MSU rarely ranks well in any major publication that ranks schools). Not to mention only a handful of undergrads do any form of undergrad research. You do understand about $0.50-$0.60 of every dollar a faculty/admin salary comes from student tuition now so it would be only fair to MSU students that the faulty spend at least half their time with undergraduate students, which they rarely do (sister goes to MSU, biggest complaint is: “if you actually get a faculty member for a class they don’t do anything, other than read off power point slides and hold a office hour or two”). That’s not a quality education, that’s like a factory school…

Student
I work in HR at a elite consulting firm in Chicago… We gather significant amounts of data on most of the nations 4 year schools, given the selective nature of our firm, we like to recruit only from 10-20 schools every spring and about 10 every November therefore we are meticulous in which schools we select to recruit from, basically we are looking for schools where we can find the highest amount of qualified candidates (every school in the nation will yield a few, but we go to the ones who would yield the most, mainly to keep costs down) therefore I have access to a lot of information about MSU’s incoming class, how it stacks up to peer institutions even GMAT, MCAT averages.

All what I have to say is resumed in these links:

http://www.msu.edu/rankings-and-recognitions/index.html

http://boldnessbydesign.msu.edu/08comparison.asp

http://topresearch.msu.edu/

http://www.msu.edu/thisismsu/facts.html

http://www.msu.edu/thisismsu/thenandnow.html

http://www.collegeportraits.org/MI/MSU

Take those links back to your “elite consulting firm in Chicago” and let them know that we are proud of our history, traditions, and what the future holds for Michigan State University.

Will keep it simple for you (given you are a MSU student), just check any US News Ranking in the last 7-10 years or even now…lowest (or 2nd to lowest) in the Big Ten … (Elite?, Google McKinsey Consulting sometime) when you get out of school, you will learn fast. History and traditions? Burning couches, rioting, being the laughing stock of the Big Ten? Traditions? Awesome, I wish you well…. Best part you know MSU is lack luster but too insecure to admit it, that’s fine, I don’t really care, writing here about MSUs short coming wasn’t my point, my point was how MSU rips off students (like you)… but good luck and god speed

It would be a delightful exercise to look up the U.S. News Board of Directors and find at least one of them having close administrative ties to the top institutions. When you tell your kids they’re special when they are not (many Umich students), they become completely manipulable fools.

I’ll state the problems with undergraduate teaching simply: the TAs and many faculty are incompetent in communicating in the English language, but the administration don’t care at all.