Lost in red tape
ASMSU still compiling receipts from leadership retreat held about two months ago; officials conflicted in past few months on how much spent, still calculating cost
Tweet
Almost two months after a leadership planning retreat, MSU’s undergraduate student government still is unclear about how it spent about $8,328.92 for the trip. And only this week did ASMSU release that it spent that amount. Members previously said they budgeted $4,000 for the excursion, but said that figure was miscommunicated and doesn’t represent the entire approved amount.
Adding to the confusion, members of ASMSU said they still don’t have all the receipts for the trip, so they can’t know its true cost. This week’s almost $8,000 estimate is just that, not a final number. Various estimates for the trip have been offered since its conclusion, the most definitive being about $7,200 after officials said they spent about 20 cents per undergraduate student.
Although the government said it still is calculating costs, an employee at Crystal Mountain Resort, where 50 ASMSU members stayed, said its accounting office reported ASMSU was sent two bills in early October. ASMSU members denied receiving the bills and said they called the resort this week to confirm all expenses before the invoices are sent out.
The confusion among ASMSU members about how much was spent on the trip and the prolonged period to calculate the costs has been going on for months. The group hopes to have a full breakdown of the trip’s costs by next week, but said those specific numbers would not be made available to the public. In the group’s financial code, it states those very documents could be presented upon request from a taxpaying member of ASMSU. The group is funded by a semesterly $16.75 tax on all undergraduate students.
Check please
Video: Man on the Street: ...
Responding to requests made by The State News for copies of invoices the group received regarding the retreat, ASMSU officials said they had not yet been billed by Crystal Mountain Resort near Manistee, Mich.
However, Karen Babcock, an employee in the resort’s group sales office, said the resort’s accounting office showed two bills had been sent to the organization. One was sent Oct. 6 and another Oct. 9. The second bill was sent because the resort hadn’t heard anything back on the first, Babcock said.
ASMSU’s Association Director Kara Spencer, who will receive invoices from the resort, said Babcock’s statement is incorrect. She said Babcock is not the resort representative with which the group dealt.
Spencer also said she spoke to a representative at the resort Thursday, who said the group’s account at the venue had been closed Oct. 6 and their invoice printed on both Oct. 29 and Tuesday.
“I had a conversation with them (Wednesday), and it was basically … they wanted to make sure they knew what we’d be getting on the bill,” Spencer said.
Spencer said the delay in billing is because the resort bent the rules for ASMSU by giving them a group rate and moving back the 30-day deadline the government had to lock in a group rate.
“Because of the short time frame, we didn’t have the 30 days,” Spencer said. “(They) wanted to make sure that billing didn’t bill us for attrition costs.”
The $8,000 estimate for the trip is a combination of $4,000 from Student Assembly and about $4,000 from various departments in ASMSU. Student Assembly Chairperson Kyle Dysarz said a retreat planning subcommittee that met this summer offered high-end estimates for how much the trip would cost and eventually agreed it would cost the group a maximum of $10,000.
That breakdown of the trip’s cost is part of the “miscommunication” members said followed the retreat.
Dysarz said the group was well within its bounds to spend money from various departments because all requested expenses were approved through the necessary channels, including the departments’ chairs and the organization’s comptroller, who oversees ASMSU’s finances.
“According to (ASMSU’s Student Assembly Financial Code of Operations), whatever the expense is, it has to be a pre-approved expense through the comptroller.
“Code is being followed (and) the process is being followed,” Dysarz said.
Fuzzy numbers
Even when the group receives all the appropriate receipts for costs associated with the trip, ASMSU spokesperson Portia McKenzie said it will not release line-item details about how the money was spent.
“It’s just not commonplace. It’s not customary,” she said. “We’re not deviating. It went through this entire process of approvals.”
McKenzie said the group is transparent with how student tax dollars are spent because a copy of ASMSU’s budget is available at its offices in Student Services upon request. She said the budget is available for viewing in accordance with the Financial Code of Operations.
However, ASMSU’s financial code also stipulates all of ASMSU’s financial reports and documentation pertaining to the group’s budget are available upon request to taxpaying members. Despite this, McKenzie said the group is well within its rights to withhold specific information.
“We’re required in our code to have the budget available, and that’s exactly what we do,” McKenzie said. “There’s no specifics to say to what degree. We’re not trying to withhold anything. It’s not practiced by businesses; it’s not practiced by us or the university.”
Leading, learning and spending
Dysarz said the more than $8,000 spent on the trip was a low cost compared to the retreat’s outcome and the skills acquired by the trip’s participants. The purpose of the retreat, which took place Sept. 18-20, was to set goals for the upcoming school year and develop leadership skills.
“We thought this was an extremely necessary decision with where we needed to bring this organization in regards to how we function internally and how we function externally,” Dysarz said. “Now we have a vision and a broad road map for not only the rest of this year, but for years to come.”
McKenzie said the group chose to travel to Manistee for the retreat because it was cheaper than local venues, such as the Kellogg Center.
Additionally, she said, leaving East Lansing allowed the group to get away from its usual setting so it could focus on the work to be done.
“The purpose is to get away and take yourself out of your work environment and actually focus on whatever issues are at hand,” McKenzie said. “We were there to handle business. And that’s why we had to go away.”
Dysarz said by isolating the group in Manistee, it allowed the retreat’s attendees to collaborate better. He said not leaving town would have been more detrimental and ultimately more costly.
“I would think by not making an investment in this type of plan (it) is not being as efficient as we possibly can,” Dysarz said.
Students were split on the group’s decision to spend more than $8,000 on a retreat. Mathematics junior Lauren Train said she condoned the retreat and didn’t mind paying the average 23 cents per student ASMSU spent on the trip. She said it was admirable ASMSU undertook the retreat for leadership building purposes.
“I can say that (23 cents) per person is okay,” Train said. “I’m sure there are other things they could have done with it. (They) can have my (23 cents) to go on a retreat.”
But microbiology junior Hannah Bach said she was unsure the group should have spent student tax dollars to go on a retreat, even if the cost was only 23 cents per student.
“I would say it’s not a big deal individually that we’re all paying,” Bach said. “But on the whole, that doesn’t really seem like a good use of our money.”
Commentary
Add your $0.02, go to the comment form or follow the comment feed
Big Deal?
(11/05/09 11:18pm)Report
Say the trip did cost $10,000. For 50 people, that works out to $200/person. I’m assuming that number includes lodging and food for a weekend (probably 2 nights), in which case, this sounds like a really good deal.
Is there nothing better to write about?
seriously?
(11/06/09 12:06am)Report
Is this seriously news? There are so many more important things going on on campus than talking about how much a retreat costs. Maybe you should cover how much the Board of Trustee’s retreat costs this year. Amateur…
meh
(11/06/09 12:15am)Report
Yes, i’m sure they bought hookers and cocaine up in ole’ manistee to help brainstorm leadership building, and thats where the money went over.
this isnt the michigan republicans at Mackinac. asmsu just underestimated costs.
bottom line
(11/06/09 12:20am)Report
Taxpayers should not be paying for vacations. Period. Whether it be ASMSU or AIG. I’ll take my money back please.
to bottom line
(11/06/09 12:59am)Report
bottom line…you can get your money back.
For all students who despise ASMSU’s practices sooo much, feel free to get a full refund of your ASMSU tax. The truth of the matter is, the so-called confusion about the costs of the retreat seem to be from the part of The State News journalism team more than anything. So if this expense is so horrifying to you, please go ahead and get your own refund instead of complaining about a organization you evidently know very little about.
Directly from the MSU website…
ASMSU is the all-university undergraduate student government (Associated Students of MSU). ASMSU provides many services to students such as free legal services, funding for student programs and events, MSU yearbook and copy and faxing services. All activities and programs are funded through a student voted tax collected each semester. For questions call 517-355-8266, email asmsu@msu.edu or visit asmsu.msu.edu.
If you are requesting a refund, contact the office at the number above. You will be required to provide proof of payment and registration. You must take action before the end of the first two weeks of a semester (or the first 10 class days)
thebomb
(11/06/09 7:41am)Report
I love all the ASMSU folks commenting that this isn’t a big deal. This is how frivelous spending balloons. First they think 8,000 isn’t a big deal, then 15,000…then 30,000. Are they seriously going to say with a straight face that they couldn’t have done something cheaper?
You can also tell that ASMSU is being incredibly deceptive when they pull out the “cost per student” number. Of course that number is going to seem low no matter what they spend because they only collect about $17 in the first place!
Seriously, you want to know what a reasonable number for a retreat is? $2000…and you do it in the area, not in some resort.
Maybe in the next retreat they should try going over such concepts as “responsibility to the taxpayer.” It might help them become actual leaders, rather than a bunch of students who think they have access to their rich uncle’s credit card.
Double Edge Sword
(11/06/09 8:44am)Report
So holy State News, when are you going to release your line item expenses for the same type of events. You spend far more on then and on rather lavish dinners for your staff and ‘board of directors’. Considering my roommate was one i have an idea how much that costs and its definitely not cheap.
By the way, hows your $5,000,000 building treating you? How much was that per taxpayer? What a joke.
free
(11/06/09 9:23am)Report
Dear everyone above, let us just live in a fantasy land where everything is free. You know if they had a surplus, you would be mad that it didn’t come back to you, or they didn’t spend enough to help everyone out. Always something
the question is...WHY?
(11/06/09 10:01am)Report
It goes back to certain people feeling a sense of entitlement. There are many boards of student organizations that would love to go on retreats for all the hard work they do too, but they do it for the experience. That money could definitely have been better spent. Why did they even need to go on a retreat in the first place? I am taking a full course load, working as many hours a week (20 ) to help pay for rent food, classes etc and volunteer at some organizations around campus and I didn’t feel that I deserved a retreat at other students expenses. If they have a surplus don’t charge us the same amount every year and use what is left over from the year before. These are the people we will read about in 10 years feeling like it is ok to jump on an all expense paid flight to Argentina and dote on their mistresses. We need to change the mentality where our student government feels it is ok to take an $8300 bath at the expense of their fellow students some of who are struggling to make ends meet. And then to have the audacity to set a budget and then more than double it. You are not entitled to any thing! If you feel like you work too hard, give the job to someone else who wants it. These are the future leaders of government, the government we have right now is not working for us and it comes from the sense of entitlement instilled in people at this young age, why are students being allowed to do this? If we want our future to change WE have to change, that means sacrifices from all of us
others?
(11/06/09 10:12am)Report
Here are are few other suggestion for stories:
1) The MSU Board of Trustees spent roughly $9000 of student tuition dollars for their retreat…that’s $9000 for 14 people. You can get your money back from tax collecting groups, you can’t get a refund of your tuition dollars.
2) RHA, another tax collectin group also does retreats with far fewer people invited. What are their numbers.
3) Since the State News is so in favor of full disclosure, how many tax payer dollars have they spent on retreats and dinners?
The simple fact is that groups need to have team building and work related functions. Virtually every arm of the university does so. Is it imperative that those meetings/events be as cost effective as possible? Of course. But the measure of the event should not just be in dollars, but also in effectiveness. While every group can also strive to accomplish more, the State News has recently run several articles about initiatives and issues that ASMSU IS working on. So, maybe, just maybe this wasn’t a vacation and was treated as an opportunity to identify issues and strategies important for the student body.
Can we now get back to the business of writing/reporting on actual news? Seems to me there are some big things going on in this state and on this campus that deserve attention.
Waste of Time
(11/06/09 10:12am)Report
Seriously. You call this a story? What is the total annual budget of ASMSU? I’m guessing it’s $1M . If you don’t like the way your student government is being run, get involved and make sure that every officer stays on campus 100% of the time. It’s pretty simple.
Employee Pirate
(11/06/09 11:30am)Report
AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH, there they go again!
When I was in ASMSU, staff members used to tell each other to post replies to cover themselves up! Ahoy, more corrupt employees it seems!
spartan senior
(11/06/09 11:56am)Report
Are you serious? This was NEWS WORTHY? Somewhere along the line, someone with a lot more power than students approved that money could be spent on this. It sounded constructive, seeing as though I am seeing ASMSU more this year than my previous 3 years here. Chill out, State News…unless you feel entitled to criticize every single dollar spent at this university.
yikes
(11/06/09 12:01pm)Report
The State News is funded by a refundable $5 tax paid by 40,000 people. That’s $200,000. Advertising sales account for much of the expenses of running the paper, and the annual banquet costs around $30/person (so maybe $3000-4000 per year). Trying to compare the $8000 plus spent on 50 people funded by a $17 per year tax to The State News annual banquet (for over 100 people)is ridiculous.
djjd
(11/06/09 12:15pm)Report
Don’t waste anything! It’s a recession, for crying out loud! Of course every dollar matters. This ain’t the 90s anymore!!!
Ben
(11/06/09 12:16pm)Report
WOW…
THIS IS THE WEEKEND ARTICLE AND THIS IS WHAT YOU PUT ON THE FRONT PAGE… and the picture on the front page is totally not portraying the issue. The problem, if any, is that state news didn’t totally understand the expenses of the trip…
Maybe the next weeks front page article should be about how the state news is wasting the students taxpayer dollars for putting articles that are nothing on the front page of the newspaper article.
COME ON!!!
Accountability
(11/06/09 12:36pm)Report
This is exactly why ASMSU gets away with things like this; because people out there don’t care. And then you have a bunch of people commenting that are a part of the staff of ASMSU to make it seem as if the state news did something wrong by reporting this.
ASMSU shouldnt get away with this. This money could have had a lot better things to be spent on. Everyoneright now is going through problems with budgeting, and here comes along ASMSU spending thousands on a free vacation. How disgusting.
RHA
(11/06/09 12:39pm)Report
btw, the RHA retreat is mostly paid out of pocket. And the retreats they go to are conferences with other residence halls associations, where they stay over in dorms at universities. They do not go to resorts going “team building” exercises while having a good ol’ time.
Rick
(11/06/09 1:35pm)Report
Retreats are vital tool for any organization. Done well, retreats are not “vacations” as one reader suggested, but rather an opportunity for important values clarification, team building, and long term planning and assessment. This is akin to a lumberjack taking time to sharpen his saw and evaluate his work. To do so effectively, one must step away from the task to gain proper perspective. Perhaps there are new tools to consider, in addition to sharpening existing ones. Regardless, we all seem recognize the need for this kind of renewal, but often fail to appreciate that humans and organizations have the same need. Doing so can improve efficiency, and stepping back from one’s work can also allow for an assessment of effectiveness. It doesn’t make much sense to be very efficient at climbing a ladder for example, only to realize that the ladder you are climbing is leaning against the wrong wall. Continuing to cut or climb away may make you look like a hard worker, but will ultimately lead to failure. It is in this vain that I applaud ASMSU for understanding this need, and for making a commitment to doing important reflection and planning in considering how they will best utilize the human and financial resources at their disposal.
That said, if the State News (or student body) has issues with the actual product of ASMSUs work, that could be newsworthy. However, this story reads like a witch hunt for POSSIBLE news in the hopes that more people will read the paper. Before pointing its finger at ASMSU, I suggest that the paper look at the three fingers pointed back at itself.
Nietsche
(11/06/09 2:13pm)Report
If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.
Justin Lippi
(11/06/09 2:29pm)Report
Don’t you think the student body cares more about their tuition affordability and program cuts than some hyperbolic article about how ASMSU is being irresponsible by sending its members on a retreat to plan for the entire year (which, by the way, was NOT fun/lavish. I went on it. Spent ridiculous amounts of time in meetings. Got behind on homework.)
This is an affront to real journalism. This type of journalism covers up the real issues (ie REAL financial problems) by making a pretend issue with the same theme (financial irresposibility) to undermine the authority of the institution that is trying to actually do something about REAL financial problems in the university.
So much for being the voice of the student body. I would say you are doing the opposite — strategically misinforming us.
Concerned ASMSU Member
(11/07/09 12:30pm)Report
I feel slightly disheartened after reading this article. We are doing a lot of work for students. Health care reform, medical amnesty, free newspapers, free legal services, free blue books, concerts, finding ways to combat tuition … and yet I read this article claiming that we lavish ourselves with “vacations”.
We spent two days away from the university, and it was anything but “fun”. We had meetings and conferences from 8 in the morning until 8 in the evening. We were required to attend all of them, and were given 15 minute breaks occasionally. There were no massages, no “vacation” activities. For students reading this, I hope you can see the witch hunt this has become.
These are my personal views.