World must come together on climate change

Nothing wrong with this article except for a flawed premise and flawed conclusions.

Flawed premise ? Use of the phrase “worsening state of our world’s climate” assumes facts not in evidence. What exactly is the ideal climate for the Earth and how do you know ? Without such information use of the term ‘worsening’ is unwarranted. Beyond that it is not clear that a warming of the climate, or higher CO2 levels, would do more harm than good. As AGW believer Bjorn Lomborg has state, far more people die worldwide from cold than heat.

Flawed conclusion ? That something must be done to address the non-problem. Not only do the proposals currently on the table seem likely to further bankrupt the US, but 3rd world nations are beginning to insist that we send them boat loads of money (we don’t have) as well. The US should not submit to such extortion.

The response to the call for international socialism and carbon taxes is…no

The problem is not the U.S. Take your premise and talk with China and India who are the world’s biggest carbon outputters. Don’t change our way of life with high taxes, more unemployment, and lower standards of living while the biggest problem nations continue unabated and take more of our jobs and industial output. Protecting the environment is well and good but it must be done with some common sense. Biggest change to the earth’s climate? Check out activities with the sun, the earth’s axis and volcanic activity. To think we as humans have the ability to affect the earth’s climate as the so called “global warming crowd” would have us believe is nothing short of human arrogance.

Speaking of human arrogance, we created immortal, immutable, all knowing, all powerful gods in our own image, ya dig?

hey, which one of you is a scientist? Got all the facts huh? Just because people shout something tirelessly does not make it fact…

^ Ah, the right-wing, no-nothing, knucklehead crowd strikes again! Phrases like the “global warming crowd”, as if a coalition of hundreds of scientists across the globe with no political agenda accidentally came to the same conclusion based on empirical fact simply to make American’s white male capitalistic power structure uncomfortable…

Honestly, you fools make me wonder: did Archie Bunker graduate from MSU?

“simply to make American’s white male capitalistic power structure uncomfortable… “

Uh… why in the world are you now playing the race card. Disagree with them all you want but seriously? geez a little more facts a little less random personal attacks that have absolutely no bearing on the topic.

I always wonder: why doesn’t the state news ever back up its opinion pieces with any facts? This time is no exception. Why don’t you do some research for a change and then write an article about the evidence supporting the global warming? Until someone can explain to me what caused the earth to heat up or cool down in the past, as it has been doing in cycles for millions of years, I am never going to believe that really scientists know what changes the climate and what doesn’t. How can human activity be blamed now? Why has the earth been dropping in average temperature for the last 10 years? Answer that before you preach to us about climate change.

Actually the planet is warming up.

What the green people don’t tell you is that it is going to warm up 1.02 celcius in the next 50 years if we don’t stop our co2 loving actions.

However if we do stop our actions and go green and earth friendly, it will rise .62 celcius.

read: we’re not making an impact

Look at all of this false information that people are spoon fed from Glenn Beck:

India a bigger Co2 producer than the US… false. China? Barely (5x the population, also)

Volcanoes contribute more to climate change than humans? False.

Milankovitch cycles? These were ruled out decades ago.

The world will be better with global warming? Not unless you live in Russia.

World temperature has been dropping for 10 years? If anything, it has only leveled off, and it’s been doing that every other decade since the 18th century. The trend is still positive.

The earth cool’s down and warms up in the past? That’s a straw man argument. If you don’t understand why, look up Ignoratio Elenchi

“I am never going to believe that really scientists know what changes the climate and what doesn’t”

Really? That’s called being ignorant.

Fact: 97% of climatologists report that anthropomorphic global warming exists.

^^Anthropomorphic?

Global Warming talks now?

In response to mvt, the last time carbon dioxide levels were as high as they are now, there were no humans on earth. Does that satisfy your skepticism regarding the “ideal climate”?

And if you’re concerned about scientific consensus, consider the fact that eighteen leading scientific organizations recently sent a letter to the Senate calling for action to reduce climate change and offering scientific guidance to the Senators. They also highlighted the consensus within the scientific community (http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2009/media/1021climate_letter.pdf). And a recent Pew Center survey found that 84% of scientists agreed that “the earth is getting warmer because of human activity such as burning fossil fuels” (http://people-press.org/report/528/).

Don’t trust the scientists? Well, a New York University survey of economists found that “84% agreed the effects of global warming ‘create significant risks’ to the economy, particularly to agriculture, fishing, insurance and health” and “94% believe the U.S. should join climate agreements to limit global warming” (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2009-11-03-economist-climate_N.htm)

Even disregarding climate benefits completely, it makes sense to cut our carbon emissions and invest in clean energy. The clean energy industry is one of the only sectors experiencing job growth right now—at a rate of 10.7% in Michigan—and cutting carbon would not only create millions of jobs but reduce foreign oil imports and cut air pollution as well. And the clean energy bill is far from a “carbon tax.” Household energy costs are actually expected to be lower under the carbon cap because of conservation and energy efficiency measures.

Michigan’s Senators Levin and Stabenow have to do their part in the international effort by voting in favor of the Congressional clean energy bill and pushing to pass it as soon as possible. No other option will sustain our economy and livelihood.

“Senior prank” is a pretty good analogy to use in talking about the climate change fearmongerers.

When the climate STOPS changing I will be worried.

Doomsday has been predicted since man learned to draw and print. Predictions of fire from the sky, great floods, earthquakes, disease, famine wars and rumors of wars are the gods that man has created in his mind. We have come to worship our fears and fear is the tool used to herd the masses into hysteria for the purpose of “social engineering”.

The only truth is that the world may just end tomorrow. That is the universe that we live in.

We worship the “sciences” as if they are the creators… yet the graven images of models can’t even predict the weather accurately for the next day.

This world used to be flat and all the other planets rotated around it. If you strayed too close to the edge… you would fall into the abyss. If you denied that this was the truth you would be turned to ashes.

The difference now… We do know just how “Scientist” cling to things they can only guess about. If you question that what they tell you is the truth you will be seen as asses.

Welcome to age of the church of enlightenment, we will pass the offering plate soon and we have carbon credit prayer cloths for sale in the lobby.

The best defense some people have now is “you can’t trust science”.

Science includes predictions made using our best available evidence. If you don’t go on the best available evidence, what are you basing your conclusions off of?

Perhaps, since you don’t trust science, you should have your car, electricity, and medicines taken away. After all, you can’t trust that they will work simply because science says they will.

Ah, Sparty, I am a white male. But I understand the construct of the position of white male power and privilege, and more recently fear and defensiveness, which the weaker amongst us operate, and I see it way too much of it on this board. And as a Spartan, it’s embarrassing.

The patron saint and spiritual leader of the “Global Warming” cult, Al Gore, recently claimed that the Earth’s core is “several million degrees” in temperature.

And we “deniers” and “know-nothings” are ignorant of science.

To this day, Al Gore has not scheduled a single debate on “Global Warming”, “Climate Change” or whatever revisionist name is next on the list.

MaximumBob: OMG Al Gore has not scheduled a single debate on “Global Warming”!!
That’s because there’s nothing to debate.

The past decade has been the hottest on record.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/anomalies/index.html

The scientists who actually study climate change say humans cause it. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/19/eco.globalwarmingsurvey/index.html

What’s left to “debate” is whether we should do anything about it.

I see all of these naysayers blabbing, but not backing up any of their statements. Simply claiming “the globe is actually cooling!” doesn’t make it so.

Somebody here show me some credible, hard, empirical evidence that a anthropogenic climate change is NOT occurring, because I can sure as hell back up my assertions with an arsenal of data.

And speaking of time running out I came across this great informational piece today:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/18/805823/-Ice-Free-Arctic-Is-Changing-N-Hemisphere-Weather

Back,

You as for credible evidence and post something from Daily Kos? Pfffttt.

So far we’ve seen the IPCC report shredded for the political hack job it is; NASA had to retract claims about yearly temperatures, and the National Weather Service’s own site location requirements for temperature monitors were found to be violated in 89 percent of the locations studied.

Climate changes. Has been for millions of years. Get over it and stop using it as a vehicle for whatever agenda you want to push.

Ahh, yes.
The typical “the debate is over” comments.

Folks, that’s the #1 clue that you’re on to a line of BS.

And now we’re supposed to prove a negative (thanks, “Back it up?”). Not a single one of the “Global Warming” cult’s models pan out, even when extrapolated backwards. So, now, we have to prove that something doesn’t exist?

You knew it was a scam when they started talking about taxes.

Obviously you folks didn’t go to the link, writing it off just because the data was posted on a liberal blog site. The data all comes from the National Snow and Ice Data Center and is irrefutable evidence of changes that are happening.

This is how rational debate works. We’ve provided vast amounts of evidence supporting anthropogenic climate change, now if you have something that disproves what these scientists have said then show me, please.

The ball is in your court and the burden of proof is on the side of the deniers. And yes, you absolutely do have to prove it doesn’t exist if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.

This is how it works:

Claim X (anthropogenic climate change is real) is presented by side A (Back it up?) and the burden of proof actually rests on side B (Deniers).

Or…

Side B (Deniers) claims that X(anthropogenic climate change exists) is false because there is no proof for X (anthropogenic climate change exists).

The later is not the case, because there is proof. So… back it up or shut it?

And now it’s the inevitable “irrefutable” claim. Anybody that uses that word is clearly incapable of handling the debate and grabs the latest platitude to save themselves.

Here ya go. Nothing but links, but that’s all you’ve brought to the table.

http://mc-computing.com/qs/Global_Warming/index.html
http://blog.heritage.org/2008/12/11/scientists-make-their-anti-global-warming-case/
http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm
http://www.switched.com/2009/07/02/epa-may-have-suppressed-anti-global-warming-study/

The fact is, there has NEVER BEEN A DEBATE on “Global Warming”. Whenever a “denier” steps up to the microphone, he’s silenced. Al Gore has yet to agree to a single debate, but his bank account is now over $100 million.

Why not end this?
Get Al Gore, your patron saint, to agree to a DEBATE. Stop turning off the microphones and shouting out dissent.

Meanwhile, Al Gore is getting rich, global goobermints are inventing new “effects” and new taxes, restrictions and punishments. The only real result is another grab at power and liberties.

What’s your obsession with finding somebody to debate Al Gore? The man compiled a bunch of data and made a documentary. Yes, it was well received, but it was kids stuff, basic, for the general public. He has a BA in poli sci and has never been a professional scientist; he would be considered an amateur climatologist.

You’re right about one thing though, there really should be a debate over the issue, then we could put all this goofiness to bed once and for all. Would I chose Al Gore, if given a choice between REAL climate scientists? Hell no, you wish!

BTW – awesome links man! I was expecting along the lines of people with degrees in the field, not some joker working on an editorial board or obviously biased conservative think tanks. Credibility implies disinterested parties with the proper credentials. Have fun in your search! :)

It is most certainly irrefutable. We live in reality, and unless you live in some bizaro world of existence which is somehow crossing into our own, and your world recorded different data than ours, then I don’t know. Does this world of yours not have gravity either? You’ve really sparked my curiosity.

It’s amazing how you’ve convinced yourself that things are absolutely and most certainly this way. That a few conservative talking heads, lobbyists, and various shills of all kinds are more likely to be correct than specialized scientists armed with Ph. D.‘s and sensitive equipment, focused on years of research.