Moving beyond coal good idea, too costly

Wow 25 million dollars!! How about instead of a second art museum for $40 million , our generous alumni do something that actually makes the region greener and the world a better place? No? Too much to ask? Ok fine, how about just a wind turbine and some solar panels in south campus? Wouldn’t cost nearly 25 million and would take a load off of the coal plant, while affirming MSU as the sustainable university it claims to be. GO GREEN

yeah, that’s $25,000,000,000 extra per year for natural gas. not a one time gift from alumni

Jim, you put 25 billion…moron. People like you, who don’t know how many zeros are in “million” are the same people who think an art museum is more worthwhile than making MSU a leader in green energy.

Rather than passing around a patition that requires the U to switch to natural gas, this group be productive and start filling out applications for grants and other ways to get the money to switch.

Unfunded mandates are exactally that — and really have no teeth to them. If this group were to come to the board of trustees meeting saying “Switch away from coal, and by the way, we have $50M from the DOE to help you do it.” they would get a quick nod, the U would change tomorrow.

Otherwise, remember, the U is broke. We are in a cutting mode, not a spend mode, regardless of the enviromental ramifications.

MSU just spent $43M to build a couple bridges over farm lane so that trains can deliver coal more efficiently. Each day, this will prevent several cars from idling needlessly as they wait at RR crossings- and save a few tenths of a gallon of petrol. What foresight!

I reject the notion that moving from coal is a good idea.

Cheap
Abundant
Reliable

Name any other fuel source that matches up to that.

25 million is what it would cost now. what happens when natural gas prices sky rockets again like it did starting in the late 90’s? who pays that bill? this student group is very short sighted and hasn’t fully thought out the ramifications of their proposed changes.

nuclear power.

I never saw a train wait for the cars on farm lane. I think the cars conformed to the trains schedule. so the bridge won’t help the efficency of the trains process of delivery.

not to mention that those tracks used to stop hundreds of cars per day. thousands per year. maybe the personal savings for one individual goes unoticed. but add it all up and see what you get.

does that 25 million more for fuel include the cost of the gas pipeline that would have to be installed? that won’t be cheap.

anyone that knows anything about power generation would laugh in your face if you proposed this plan to them.

In all our country’s history, Universities have been places of innovation, switching to clean energy should be no different.

1- The cost of coal is not cheap. When you take into account the external costs such as tax breaks (paid for by you and your families), infrastructure such as thicker roads to truck coal, health impacts, and environmental impacts, it is most definitely not cheaper.

2- The price of coal is going to go up due to pending environmental regulations such as new ones proposed around coal ash waste, which contains carcinogens and other toxins.

3- Coal is a finite resource. Whoever said nuclear was the next best thing after coal apparently doesn’t know that nuclear is obscenely expensive and has a byproduct that won’t degrade for 250,000 years (correct number of zeros).

4- Other Universities are working to transition away from coal without skyrocketing their students tuition! Cornell, Suny Binghamton in New York, Ball State, University of Southern California, University of Wisconsin in Madison, University of North Carolina, the list goes on.

I commend this group for working to move MSU into the future. As one of the largest Universities in the country, other schools look up to us. We need to step up to the plate and do what is right for the health of our people and our land.

With thousands of professors, students, and researchers here, there are smart enough people here to make a sensible and cost effective plan to transition away from coal by 2015.

wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, etc…

free
infinite
benign

Can you put a price tag on a sustainable and just planet? How about people’s health? The mountains of Appalachia? Coal is not cheap—it comes at a huge expense to future generations. Go Green, MSU—kick the coal habit!

Too costly for who? Tell the people of Maldives that its too expensive. Their homeland will be underwater soon.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/17/maldives.underwater.meeting/

Coal mining destroys mountains:

http://www.ilovemountains.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountaintop_removal_mining

How come there is a comment from the facilities manager, but not from the Beyond Coal campaign itself? Seems like somewhat shoddy reporting- not letting the campaign speak for itself.

Msu has been taking an initiative in becoming more green but they need to push harder. Stopping the use of coal is an urgent matter. The agenda of the group is anything but short sighted. I think their message is one of foresight. Sure coal is cheap and abundant at the moment, but what happens when coal runs out. Coal is not a renewable resource and prices will only continue to increase as the coal becomes more scarce.Experts say coal reserves could start tapering off in the next ten to twenty years. How cheap will coal be then? The future is something which should really be considered when thinking about the continued use of coal at Msu. The environment will also inevitably suffer in the future because of coal’s contribution to global warming.Sure, it’s okay to use coal but think of the future and how the world will be riddled with problems because of global warming. It will be to late to care about the environment; it will already be destroyed because we were shortsighted.

The AVERAGE COAL PLANT costs us over $150 MILLION annually in health and environmental damages. Simon Coal Plant is not the average coal plant. It is considerably bigger.

MSU has a responsibility to its students and community to create a healthy living environment. Right now, our coal plant burns 250,000 tons of coal a year increasing the risk of numerous health problems such as respiratory problems, autism, heart attack, and stroke. The excuse that coal is a less expensive source of energy may be true today, but the cost it imposes on the environment and public health is far more great.

Fine, eliminate coal. While you’re at it, shut down the rest of the automotive industry. Shut down U.S. Steel. Shut down all technology and industry. Nothing is quite as green as genocide right you brainwashed IDIOTS!

Stop the Genocidal Green Propaganda Campaign

It makes no sense to criticize a 3 week old campaign for trying to develop momentum for this goal. Getting community committment in the form of petitions is the beginning of campaigning.

Before proposals are made, there has to be a clear demand. Identifying that demand, and coordinating and mobilizing a mass of people is called organizing. That’s what this group is doing. Top down proposals and goals can be effective, but long lasting and effective policy comes from having buy-in from the larger community.

Furthermore, agencies give a grants because communities demonstrate a need and desire. Organizing is a way to make that demand visible and vocal.

On a more general note, the cost of coal is already externalized and subsidized by the state. It just comes out of our paychecks and lungs instead.

To “You’re Mostly Idiots”:

You compare the elimination of coal to the elimination of technology. Let me help you understand why this is absurd.

Technology is the application of SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE.

Coal as a fuel source has existed for over 2,000 years and its continued use IGNORES ALL SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE that tells us it is a horrible fuel source.

Such a mistaken opinion might be laughable if so many people didn’t agree with you. But because they do, it is just sad.

I like how the article was, well, just plain wrong. I understand it’s an opinion,so I guess they don’t really need to talk to one of the actual members of the club, but that would’ve been nice. Oh, it also would have been nice if they, you know, actually knew what MSU Beyond Coal was trying to do.

“If that is the case — when dividing the number of students at MSU by the estimated $25 million needed — a $535 increase in tuition per student per year would be required for the university to have enough money to completely convert to coal” um… convert to coal?

And aside from that, Beyond Coal is pushing for 100% clean, renewable energy. Not natural gas (although natural gas is a slightly better alternative to coal) If they had talked to someone about the costs of putting up windmills or building a geothermal plant or having solar panels installed then that would be one thing, but to focus on something the campaign isn’t focusing on is just stupid.

MSU needs to drop the “Be Spartan Green” nonsense if they’re going to continue to use a coal-fired power plant.
The amount of toxic coal ash they send off to the landfill every year completely overshadows any recycling programs they have in place.

They’ve been talking about converting to biomass for awhile now, but it seems like truly being “green” is one of the Universities last priorities— They just want to have the appearance of “being green” without making a real effort. However; I do commend the many other organizations like the Student Organic Farm who understand the importance of REAL environmental sustainability.

It seems as if everyone is saying that there are only two ways to look at this. Either get rid of coal altogether or keep using it. No other solutions. Here’s an alternative, clean coal. And I’m not talking just about scrubbers and filtration systems in the power plant. I mean coal that as well as being low in sulfur, should also be low in ash. Just like the kind that steam trains run on. That’s right, STEAM trains that run cleaner. Although, I have to admit that the power plant of course gives off alot more pollutants than an old steam train would, especially since it is larger, operates continuously, and only creates electricity.
Maybe MSU should also study making coal renewable. Lets face the fact: the world will eventually run out of coal. If we want to use existing technology but still be green, this is the way to go. For instance, ethanol is just a gasoline substitute that burns much cleaner and more efficiently. Plus it is made from natural materials. Why not apply the same science to coal. Coal is just prehistoric plant material compacted over time and covered by large pieces of ground for millions of years. It is also full of whatever chemicals the earth puts in it which are bad such as arsenic. But what if humans could set aside some land to make their own coal. Just use construction machinery to compact some dead or decaying plant material and heap dirt on it for a few decades. Then mine it out. When you run out of coal, start the process over. It would probably be no different from a landfill except it will be useful.
The landfill just brought me another alternative to coal. Why not harvest the natural gas from underneath an old landfill and truck it to MSU? If you don’t like the clean coal idea this would be a less costly alternative. It could also be brought in by train. Too bad MSU doesn’t sit on a major waterway because boats would be the most efficient way to get the gas here.
Finally, MSU could also put small solar panels on top of several buildings. These solar panels could charge batteries to back up the power plant in case there is an outage.
Of course, all of these ideas need to be backed up by efficiency. Since alot of the electricity is used to heat or cool campus buildings, new insulation should be looked into. New technology has spurred a new yet common insulation: dirt and grass. In Detroit, the roof of the Ford plant grows a lawn of grass. This provides a more natural cover to a large area that would otherwise be concrete. As an added bonus it can keep warm or cool air from escaping.
All this could be a good investment and may save us some money in the long run. Especially for us students who can’t afford another raise on our tuition.