Some Americans could use cultural center

Great critique of the logic (or illogic) underlying the prejudice against minoritized groups, and how uninformed prejudices can be mobilized to advance the interests of the State. War and violence are only possible in the absence of empathy, in our refusal to imagine an Other as an equal, here or abroad.

There’s one assumption I would question further. If Americans in general are “more willing to allow ignorance and stupidity to reign over their common sense…” how is this evident?
If we want to know what Americans are really willing to do, can we look to Gingrich or Palin, or mainstream news coverage of the community center story, for a realistic picture?

I suppose this is the picture of America broadcast repeatedly through CNN, FOX, ABC, and other news outlets—bigoted Americans fuming over an issue so non-issue, somehow newsworthy but so trivial next to the carnage, trauma, and monstrous debt created by the wars.

But these news outlets do not really reflect the views of the majority of Americans, no more than Newt Gingrich or Sarah Palin could represent the majority of Americans, not in terms of fiscal policy, or enthusiasm for participatory democracy or a secular state apparatus.

What news media (dominated by five giant corporations in the United States) does is to systematically exclude the diverse viewpoints of the majority of Americans, and not report on stories and information that would be of use to the majority of Americans in making informed voting choices.

Wouldn’t the American people want to know about things like waterboarding, extraordinary rendition, the targeted murders of civilians and combatants, and the use of depleted uranium (with known mutagenic and teratogenic effects) in densely populated urban areas, as they all constitute violations of international law and crimes against humanity.

Mark Crispin Miller draws some important conclusions about the relationship between corporate media, politics, and the erosion of American democracy. One point that really stuck with me as a heartening truth, is this: given that widespread and systematic (and very well documented) election fraud has been going on since 2000, it follows that the direction of law, policy, and economy since 2000 does not accurately reflect the wishes and interests of the American public.

So according to Miller, No. We’re not really that myopic, stupid, war-loving, militant, imperialist, fanatically anti-choice, homophobic, or racist. We don’t really want to trash the very essence of America, that which makes America American—the unalienable rights and civil liberties guaranteed by the Enlightenment principles embedded in the foundational documents of this country. We really don’t want to savage the poor and ill until no more profit can be squeezed out of them, and then discard them.
We really don’t want to leave a poisoned environment (at home or abroad in US occupied nations), eroded infrastructure, and trillions of debt to the next generation of Americans.

These are the inclinations of politicians and the super-wealthy elite. They dominate government and industry, and set the agenda for the majority of news programming, and will continue to do so until election fraud is earnestly investigated and stopped.

Perhaps a more accurate reflection of the American collective will is found in NYC CAN (NYC Coalition for Accountability Now). NYC CAN is hosting a Vote For Answers campaign, to add referenda to local ballots for a new investigation into the 9/11 catastrophe.

www.nyccan.org/voteforanswers.php

Miller speaks on the 9/11 truth statement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIsdpqS9KZA&feature=related

RTE interview with Miller, critique of news media:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFPmUVU6eYE&feature=related

I think the correct position on this issue is to oppose the building of the cultural center but support the right to build the cultural center.

As an example, I oppose the creation of a video that combines footage of the September 11 attacks with Boots Randolph’s “Yakety Sax”, but I support the right to create such a video and post it on “YouTube”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De1wNLEGQ30.

Honesty ought to compel us to oppose all religious institutions at all opportunities, because they promote false and often harmful ideas. But Islam is a particularly dangerous religion and we have no duty to embrace it two blocks from the site where thousands died as a result of men infected by ideas of jihad and martyrdom. With the right to build an Islamic cultural center comes the right to protest it.

Little Nicky won’t be happy until we’re all forced into his reeducation camps. Excuse me, “cultural centers”.

It’s truly a pathetic weakness when some will tolerate the intolerable. When the going gets tough, the American left never fails to buckle at the knees and subjugate themselves in the name of “tolerance”.

Again, Feisal Abdul Rauf was the “moderate” muslim who proclaimed, only 19 days after the 9/11 islamic terrorist attacks, that the us was an “accessory” to those attacks:

http://townhall.com/blog/g/f64e103a-fd1a-448a-8d1b-ed65df3a5051

Nineteen days. There was still smoke coming out of two holes in the ground, not 600 feet from where these “moderates” wish to build their victory monument, when this “moderate” clearly espoused radical Islamic thought.

It’s always funny when the lefties proclaim something so prominent to be a “non-issue”, when so many Americans rightfully feel it to be something of significance. We’re constantly subjected to the smears of “racism” and “bigotry”. Not 24 hours after Islamic extremists murdered 3,000 people across America, leftists like Nicky were cautioning us not to seek revenge on innocent muslims. Throughout the MSM, we heard of the imminent threat of retaliation across the country. Several isolated events in nearly 10 years, one fatality, and that’s it. They sounded disappointed when their predictions of American intolerance did not manifest themselves. Sorry ‘bout that, Nicky. Maybe next time.

Meanwhile, the enemy among us continued to plot under our auspices of “tolerance” and “understanding”. When we needed “moderate” Islam to stand up, they rarely formed ranks in support of their country. Instead, they offered the cover that lulled Americans into thinking that this was, again, a “non-issue”.

But let’s ignore Nicky’s invectives and go to the heart of the argument: Why would a “moderate” Islamic group seek to promote “understanding” and “tolerance” by deliberately and steadfastly choosing to build their “cultural center” on ground that was, indeed, part of the attacks of 9/11 and should rightfully be considered part of “Ground Zero”. The overwhelming cry is “Not here!“, but the “tolerant” left would have you believe we’re saying, “Not ever!“, and nothing could be further from the truth.

Sig,

it is you who is weak. Your feigned righteous fear makes me sick.

You know, I’m not okay with this style of commentary that attacks or cavalierly dismisses the good analytical work of some very forward-thinking and insightful columnists.

So the basketball leadership stays at MSU, and that’s really nice. The parking ticket fees went up and a satellite campus was shut down, and those are not so nice.
I appreciate that these columns bother to challenge readers to question prevailing ideas that support the status quo, such as rabid xenophobia, racist scapegoating, the criminalization of dissent against endless war, and the obscuring of useful, factual information in political dialogue where it is totally urgent.

These are the closing days of summer, when young people would be partying and getting fun out of the way in preparation for the serious academic work ahead. And here these columns are asking that we think, and think seriously, about the causes, effects, and consequences of wars, neither of which today’s students had any kind of a choice in initiating or stopping. There are Mohsen and Pfc Manning, in jail.

The least readers can do is listen and think seriously about the issues posed.

I want to insist on peace and empathy. We still have a choice, whether to get sick, react with emotions, or to search even more studiously for answers, reasons, and evidence, and talk publicly about our findings.

State education systems and a free press exist to support and cultivate the exchange of ideas—all ideas, not just the ones that support a particular status quo, or those permitted by a dominant group as “not dangerous.”

For example, what about the idea that the people of a sovereign nation have a right to defend themselves against an illegal invasion and occupation of their lands, perpetual airstrikes that reduce infrastructure to rubble, takeover of their natural resources by foreign companies, foreign interference in national elections, or the pollution of their environment with dangerous chemicals like depleted uranium?
Do Americans reserve this right for themselves? For whom does such an idea pose a danger, and why?

The ability to exchange ideas, refine argumentation and reasoning skills, and learn from disagreement, all without unconstitutional limitations on content, is absolutely essential to informed participation in a democracy.

We need to count on that support, expect it, and insist on it for ourselves and fellow humans. This is an essential piece of the democratic process.

This is the most basic and most important axiom of the entire political structure, so I’ll say it and I’ll say it again. Real choice and real dissent = real democracy.

Mohsen is a common criminal who’s guilty of battery.

Manning is a traitor and will rot in prison.

Any religious group concerned about “peace” or “empathy” would not have chosen such a location. But, I guess that is only a one-way street with Islam.

Oh, and Islam doesn’t offer a “choice” and it doesn’t tolerate “dissent”.

Racist teabagger:
“Muslim-born Miss USA says she opposes Ground Zero Islamic center”

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/ground_zero_mosque_imam_says_radical_7rGRZmCD1Lh7sf2QSiYSRJ

Mr. Miller, I reject your implication that anyone who has commented on this article has not thought seriously about the issues involved.

I do, however, completely agree with you that “[t]he ability to exchange ideas, refine argumentation and reasoning skills, and learn from disagreement, all without unconstitutional limitations on content, is absolutely essential to informed participation in a democracy.” But notice that the community of moderate Muslims has felt that they stand above the criticism that comes with the free exchange of ideas. If the people responsible for the proposed Islamic cultural center supported my right to draw cartoons of Muhammad and burn the Qur’an, then this cultural center would likely be very beneficial. But that does not appear to be the case.

Thank you for correcting my unfair assumption. I could probably take myself a bit less seriously.

I agree with you that free exchange of ideas includes the unpopular ones, and satire is protected speech.
Yes, like the other monotheistic religions, Islam religious-cultural community transcends national borders in some ways. But I’m not sure I understand this connection between the protests against the Danish cartoonist and the proposal for the community center in NYC, or how it would make sense to change the laws to pre-emptively curtail a civil liberty in case the builders of this center do not individually support another civil liberty, the satirizing or desecrating of religious figures or literature.

Leaving aside the question of reparations for the many community centers, mosques, and communities destroyed in US airstrikes, this issue about the community center seems to be non-issue precisely because, as Gov Paterson himself pointed out in an August 18 interview with CNN, nothing prohibits that space from being developed as a religious or ethnic community center.

The objection to the community center seems largely predicated on this idea that Islam caused the 9/11 attacks. From this idea, we go on to differentiate the degrees of Islam, radical, moderate, or other, and which one might have caused 9/11. We try to code safe and unsafe levels of Islam.

Is this not like coding safe and unsafe levels of Christianity because some people who ascribe to Christianity go on to bomb women’s clinics and murder gynecologists?

The fact remains that the real causes of the 9/11 attacks are unclear, as there has yet to be a thorough investigation. To quote Mark Crispin Miller in the NYC CAN March speech, the commission was given a ludicrously low budget ($3 million, in comparison to $50 million for Challenger and $40 million for Whitewater) and shortened time frame (18 months). Further, by the admission of the commission’s own council, lots of unreliable, curtailed, or outright false testimony was given.

When there hasn’t been a real investigation, blaming Islam itself does little to shed light on any substantial explanations. Substantial explanations might include a history of destructive and wildly unpopular US foreign policy, the US’s self-serving and ambiguous definitions of terror, the CIA concept of “blowback,” or major and systematic failures of news conglomerates to report meaningfully on any of the above.

So instead, prejudices are mobilized to serve the interest of the State. It is in the State’s interest not to have a real investigation into what caused the 9/11 attacks, but it is not in the best interest of the people. We need to understand what happened and how to prevent such a thing from ever happening again.

Why did you conveniently leave out the part of the quote where Rauf states that “America did not deserve” the 9/11 attacks?.

And, more importantly, how could you possibly argue against the point that America was an “accessory” to the attacks? Are you actually arguing that that is not the case? Pretty weak argument.

Lets put all of that aside. Lets focus on the fact that the mosque “issue” was entirely created by the media. This Muslim group has been active in this particular neighborhood of New York for decades. And they are now building their religious center in that neighborhood. An equal distance from the site of the attacks as other religious buildings, a strip club, and multiple other institutions. This mosque is a non-issue that has been sensationalized by elements in the media that want to sell a story.

Sig, don’t you feel foolish, ashamed, embarrassed, or just plain stupid for saying “how high?” when the right’s finest spin doctors told you to jump?

Here’s hoping that someday you learn to think for yourself.

I’d love to hear how America was an “accessory” to the 9/11 murders. Please. We’ve already heard the lies about how the CIA created the taliban and how bin Laden was a CIA “employee”. Maybe you can spout more of the Truther nonsense in vain hopes of clouding the issue?

I’ve been to that neighborhood. FOUR TIMES since 9/11 alone. Care to tell me what the muslim population is in that area? Practically ZERO. It makes one wonder what function this “cultural center” is supposed to perform.

When it’s proven that the 9/11 terrorists received their guidance and funding from strip club or “other” religious institutions, I’ll change my mind. Until then, there is no whitewashing Islam’s linkage to 9/11 and worldwide terrorism.

And, I didn’t need marching orders from anyone but the New York Times (gasp!). I first read about this monument to Islamic “tolerance” in that fine paper. It didn’t take any editorials for me to think, “The want to build it where?!”

@SigP226
Thank you for visiting our fine city!

It would be difficult to distinguish Muslims from Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, etc. as most local people are wearing suits during the business week. This area is relatively empty during the weekend (before and after 9/11) except for tourists and a few locals who can afford to live there.

The area is very accessible through many train lines. You can get there from NJ Path (via Jersey City/Hoboken) and virtually all NYC subway lines. Population in the Bronx and Staten Island would have some time constraints getting to this location.

I believe Brooklyn has the largest Muslim population concentration in NYC. Building “Park51” there would be difficult; you’d have to put up with the hipsters, tight pants and all.

Honestly, the political posturing related to this building is quite sickening. I hope we can both agree on that.

Truthiness,
Don’t worry about the numbers.
That “community center” will soon be a worldwide attraction for muslims from all nations. It’ll be the Islamic “Disneyland”.

You are wrong on this one, if Feisal is Sufi, and the center is also Sufi, which means that the majority of Muslims from all around the world who are Sunnis and Shiites will not have anything to do with it. It’s like expecting catholic, protestant and orthodox Christians to flood the baptist church

Rauf has billed this as a “cultural center”, not a “Sufi cultural center”, so your argument falls short.

But, all muslims are expected to go to Mecca at least once in their lives, right? I’m sure this victory monument will have a bit of the allure.

if the argument was just about the “cultural center” in the first place, it would not get this kind of attention.

And the comparison of this center to Mecca is just irrelevant!

IMO If there’s already a mosque 4 blocks away from Ground Zero I don’t see why they can’t just pick a different location. I do support that Muslims do have a right to have places like this, but if it blows out in such an issue why not just pick a different place. The founders of the center do not represent the majority of Muslims neither do they do any good for them with this initiative. The only thing that this center has done so far is increased the apathy against Muslims among the nation. They need to realize that, and ignorance being another issue, this apathy can quickly turn into hate and violence.

Hey I’m not the only Islmophobe on the block. Phew! I feel much better now.

Other visionary Islamophobes like Sig and I:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/19239

Hey clear-eyed people have been calling Islam a totalitarian death machine for over 1,000 years, but let’s ignore the facts and pretend it’s a religion of peace instead.

“For these impious people, hated by God and infamous, boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God…they live by the bow, the sword and debauchery, finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder, pillage, spoil and not only do they commit these crimes, but even – what an aberration – they believe that God approves of them. This is what I think of them, now that I know precisely about their way of life.” **********************

Patriarch Cyrus of Alexandria on Islam

“I am afraid that God has sent these men to lay waste the world”.

“but let’s ignore the facts”

if we don’t ignore the facts what do you have to say about infamous Crusades? Wasn’t it justified by religion?

the statements above are pretty biased and cant be credible, they cannot judge Muslims just like that, because the Muslims are a very big and diverse community, and generalizations cannot be applied to all of them. It is not an issue of the religion itself, it is how people interpret and practice it! There is no PURE Muslim nation or country or anything, and it never can be. If you travel around the world you can meet many different Muslims and in this case there is also a factor of culture. Islam is integrated in local cultures so how people conduct themselves doesnt always represents the religion, but culture.

the image of Islam is heavily distorted in the US by many different organizations and media, including AlQaeda, NewsCorp (FOX), Nation Of Islam, some Christian organizations etc. so Islamophobia is more of a misinformation issue.

and as a conclusion i’ll quote Louis Farrakhan (whos movement i do not support but he made a very good point):

“Over the centuries, the evils of Christians, Jews and Muslims have dirtied their respective religions. True Faith in the laws and Teaching of Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad is not dirty, but, practices in the name of these religions can be unclean and can cause people to look upon the misrepresented religion as being unclean.”

You mean THE Crusades?
The very Crusades that began in reaction to 300 years of Islamic totalitarianism and oppression of non-muslims in conquered Christian regions?

Those Crusades?
The ones that ended over 700 years ago?

Meanwhile, we’ve still got a worldwide “islam” problem. Ahhh, I do so live the fires of Paris in the springtime!

And, if “Muslims are a very big and diverse community”, why is almost every country with a msulim population experiencing a) oppression of minorities and/or b) terrorism? Surely, there’s somewhere for an infidel to travel without having his head removed?

Please, name that islamic paradise so we may finally find a place for all those “moderate” muslims who wish to remake EVERY nation they infest.

And, where to begin with the made up “islamaphobia”? Apparently, you can put “-phobia” behind everything in an attempt stop the debate. They should’ve tried that with “global warming”. Too late.

there is no sense in responding to your post since you are obviously not open to a constructive dialogue, all these insulting attempts and sarcastic comments just make you a troll. and one advice, try to take a look from different perspectives before you make conclusions, go travel around the world, meet different people and then we’ll talk

I’ve lived in and worked in FIVE different countries, not including military deployments, over the past twenty years.

Thanks.
I’ll put my international and cultural experience against any here.

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.”

“All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion.”

-Thomas Jefferson.

…except if they’re brown?

You’re wrongly insinuating that just because a lot of us are against the “cultural center” being built there, that we’re arguing Muslims have no right to worship whatever invisible man they want to.

Why are you even playing that card? Nice hatchet job, but your straw man is lacking in subtlety.

You’re incorrect in the assumption that we numpties in these comments don’t have just as much (or likely more) world experience than you; that we haven’t worked in a multitude of languages and countries and enjoy spending a couple of weeks here and there in weird and wonderful lands.

I suppose the difference is that I actually interact(ed) with the local population.

Go on. Cultural experience face-off. You go first. Tell us a story of just how awesomely you interact with local populations.