Concern for preservation of MSU classics department triggers 1,500-signature petition
By: Meredith Skrzypczak
For E. Dean Detrich, the classical studies major, which is on the university’s chopping block, makes up the heart of MSU.
Without it, the university’s image would not be the same, said Detrich, a retired faculty member from the Department of French, Classics and Italian.
“If it’s a university, it has a classics department, otherwise it’s the Michigan State community college. It’s just becoming a trade school,” he said. “Don’t pretend to be a university if you don’t, in fact, offer what a university offers.”
Concerns MSU has lost its way are running high among classical studies faculty members and students are worried about the undergraduate major’s elimination. Classical studies offers a range of courses such as those on Greek and Latin languages and courses on ancient civilizations.
The possible discontinuance of the undergraduate major in the College of Arts and Letters was announced at last month’s MSU Board of Trustees meeting.
The major was part of recommendations to deal with shrinking funds while supporting activities that enhance the university’s future, according to MSU’s Shaping the Future Web site. The university must confront a $50 million, or 15 to 20 percent, reduction in its operating budget during the next three years.
Wm. Blake Tyrrell, a distinguished professor of classics, said claims the cut would save the university money are baseless.
“As far as I’m concerned, the university has lost its way,” he said. “It’s said to be a budgetary thing, and there’s no way (MSU is) going to save any money.”
MSU Provost Kim Wilcox, who is overseeing the cuts, could not be reached for comment.
John Rauk, associate professor of classics, said MSU’s image would change without the program.
“We would be the only school in the Big Ten that does not have classical studies,” he said. “It would be a clear contradiction of the image of MSU as a pioneer land grant institution.”
The major’s three faculty members could be teaching in other departments, Rauk said.
“We’ve been told that our faculty would be assigned full-time to teach Integrative Arts and Humanities,” he said. “That type of assignment may not allow us to reach the audience that we reach now.”
Classical studies senior Stephanie Senneker said the possible program cut would be detrimental to current students in the major and future students who might be interested in it.
“As a student, I think it’s a grave mistake to cut classics from the offering here at MSU,” she said.
Classical studies has averaged 24 majors per year for the past three years, Rauk said. Out of that average, the program has had six majors graduate each year for the past two years, he said.
“These may be small absolute numbers, but very healthy when compared to the number of faculty in the program,” Rauk said.
A petition to save the program has more than 1,500 signatures, he said.
“I hope that sends a message to the administration that classics is relevant to a large audience,” Rauk said.
11/19/09 @ 12:10am
I support the administration every step of the way in this process, except in this. Classical studies, even if they have 1 student, have to be preserved.
Still, I have my doubts about this because I heard that they were going to merge languages and classics, a measure that makes sense.
11/19/09 @ 2:42am
“As far as I’m concerned, the university has lost its way,” he said. “It’s said to be a budgetary thing, and there’s no way (MSU is) going to save any money.”
Exactly. I have it on good information that many of the proposed department cuts and re-organizations have been in the planning stages for several years and will actually cost MORE money then they save.
The fact of the matter is, the administrators at this school are trying to cut out some of the defining programs of this university in the name of prestige. Let’s cut out the things that don’t look pretty in a magazine and boost our profile, damn the students and the people the university exists for in the first place.
Kim Wilcox, Lou Simon, and Co. are parading behind budget shortfalls to enact radical transformations to this university that they have been itching to do for awhile now.
Since when does extending classes on Friday save money? Here’s an idea, eliminate or reduce Friday classes and start closing buildings on Friday. Save on maintenance costs and electricity.
I’m just happy that Wilcox was undressed by that professor who challenged his claims for substance. We need more people like that standing up and fighting for this school.
11/19/09 @ 7:17am
Does anyone want to start a petition to axe the Classics department? Seriously, what a waste. We should be preserving the useful departments, like geology and communicative disorders.
11/19/09 @ 9:01am
The Classics do look pretty in a magazine. That would be Sparty, and who are the Spartans? Read your classics!
11/19/09 @ 11:20am
“The Classics do look pretty in a magazine.”
When’s the last time you saw a university’s ranking affected by its classics program???
Not saying its not important, it definitely is. Just not to the people at the top.
11/19/09 @ 11:21am
You pay tuition to attend a UNIVERSITY, a place where knowledge and learning are prized. A citizenry that is informed and thinks critically is vital to a functioning democracy. The sad state of affairs in this country is primarily due to people like you, who cannot see past the most grossly utilitarian function of anything.
If you’re so concerned about things that are “useful” why not just go to a community college or technical school? There you can learn plenty of “useful” things that will prepare you for the mediocre career in middle management you’re destined for.
11/19/09 @ 2:11pm
Among the top 100 ranked US colleges, how many do and how many don’t have classics programs?
11/19/09 @ 2:19pm
“Seriously?”: The geology department’s numbers dwarf the classics department, in both faculty and students. Even if all 3 (count’em: 3) faculty members of the classics were outright fired, it wouldn’t come close to saving the geological sciences department. And for the record, the university should have both. Why make this a zero-sum game?
11/19/09 @ 2:22pm
So MSU will have the world’s largest collection of comic books (this is true) but no classics department.
I can already hear them laughing in Ann Arbor.
11/19/09 @ 3:48pm
This particular case of the classical studies is not about being useful or not, but about preserving what should be the core offers of a university, our University. Classical studies, along with philosophy and other fields in humanities, are essential for a university and should not have to be evaluated by using the enrollment test.
I this article is true and not sensationalism by the State News, I would encourage students and faculty to negotiate with the administration and maybe merge with another department, like philosophy.
11/19/09 @ 4:04pm
Actually, I just checked in the Shaping the Future website and there’s no such thing as eliminating the classical studies.
They are going to merge the department of classical studies (French, Classics, and Italian) and the department of Spanish and Portuguese.
I think this is appropriate.
If there’s something to learn here is to read right from the primary source, not for secondary or other sources that just speculate and create articles on what other, uninformed people say.
11/19/09 @ 4:06pm
For those who are interested this is the excerpt:
“College of Arts and Letters to unite French, Classics & Italian with Spanish & Portuguese to create a Romance Language department”
Link: http://shapingthefuture.msu.edu/department_reorganizations.php
11/19/09 @ 4:09pm
How much money can really be saved by eliminating this program? With only 3 faculty in a nmajor that costs little other than staff wages to run, and 24 students in the major paying tuition and fees, this seems very close to paying for itself. Also they have indicated the faculty will be moved to IAH, so there are no actual staff cost savings there…
Loosing classics will hurt the university as much as loosing geology, or music therapy. Many students will not just transfer into other majors, but will seek other institutions for study.
Incidentally, I am a Forestry undergrad & grad alum.
11/19/09 @ 7:57pm
Merging departments is not the issue. The University proposes to cut the Classical Studies program, which means eliminating the Classical Studies MAJOR. The College of Arts and Letters has already begun the paperwork to eliminate the PROGRAM and major.
11/19/09 @ 8:05pm
Let’s get back to our roots and re-emerge as the Michigan Agricultural College or as older generations call it: Cow College. Schools across the nation are renaming themselves. But we can truly re-invent ourselves! At graduation the remaining humanities students can all grovel before the engineering, science and business majors and ask to be forgiven for choosing ludicrous majors such as classics, art history and womens studies. What a waste! The graduates with practical majors do without thinking, while the humanities think before doing! The humanities inefficiency drags down the great University who has reached across the globe touching lives while these damn humanities “thinkers” just sit and think while we write 10 emails on our blackberries and update Excel documents. It’s so embarrassing how much they value their thoughts. Tools and technology makes us human not thought…
11/19/09 @ 9:41pm
I’m pragmatic. Look at the balance sheet, if that dept do not generate as much money as they spend, they must be cut. It’s time for MSU to deviate from the land-grant origin to something more useful and practical. Pump money into other depts that can improve our ranking. That’s our goal. If you want to study classics, find another school. We don’t need you!
11/19/09 @ 11:04pm
student: if you look a little further in the PowerPoint, kim wilcox does indeed recommend cutting classical studies.
anyway, the romans and greeks were cool froods who knew their stuff. we have a lot to learn from them in many areas: art, society, politics, etc.
it’s hilarious that the spartans are going to cut classics.
also, if there are only three faculty members, some of whom already teach in other departments as well as classics, i can’t imagine how this is so expensive to run.
gary, it’s not a matter of debt, it is a matter of how important the major is. but if you want to balance the budget, how about we stop funding “non-revenue sports” (!) god forbid we stop funding the golf team!
11/20/09 @ 2:05am
I recommend scheduling a meeting with the Provost and the President. This is a very serious issue. Not to discredit other programs being cut out at different levels, but when you talk about a university you talk about core programs, and classical studies is one of them.
Programs come and go as the world and technology evolves, but some never change because their teachings can’t be beat by innovation or time. At MSU, we are very proud of our agricultural history but that agricultural education and research was supplemented by our founders and early leaders with classical and human arts.
And that’s just one reason to not remove the classical studies program.
With that said, the students and faculty in this program should organize and ask for external involvement. I sure would get involved.
I do support eliminating some programs in the current economic condition, if no other external funding is available, but, even though I am not a classical studies student, I don’t support eliminating such program that is at the very core of education and life.
There has to be a way to save classical studies by moving it to another department, merging departments, or any other way.
11/27/09 @ 10:58am
Gary wrote: “Look at the balance sheet, if that dept do not generate as much money as they spend, they must be cut”.
Sorry to inform you, but the purpose of a university is not to generate a profit. The purpose is to to develop well-rounded men and women who will go forth and affect the world in positive ways. Otherwise, as the professor said, it is not a university, just a trade school.
And your final statement “If you want to study classics, find another school. We don’t need you!” is short-sighted, selfish, and ignorant.